Do golfers need to read up on unconscious bias?

[Neilds]

Reading a number of threads on here, mainly the ones that involve moaning - slow play, etc, it seems that a lot of posters are suffering from unconscious bias and need to take a look at themselves. The amount of people who have to point out the two ball in front were ladies, seniors (or worse still,both) is quite frightening. Surely , if you aren’t sexist or ageist it should be enough to say it was a two ball without referring to any other characteristics. I hope no-one would refer to a black or disabled two ball but it seems acceptable to mention age or sex. Maybe the mods need to keep an eye on this?
And before anyone mentions, I am neither female or old?

 

[robinthehood]

Nothing unconscious about the bias on here .

 

[Orikoru]

I can see why you might suggest it was sexist or ageist, but in reality I don't think it is. The fact is the average senior group is slower, because being old they can't move as quick - that's just nature. As for ladies, obviously there are plenty of great female golfers, but at my club at least the vast majority are off 30+ and only knock it about 100 yards, so obviously their rounds are going to take longer as well. Clearly there are going to be exceptions to both, and it's more generalisation and tarring people with the same brush than outright sexism/ageism. But opinions may differ on that.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

I’ll get the popcorn. This thread is gonna be an absolute delight.

 

[chrisd]

I can see why you might suggest it was sexist or ageist, but in reality I don't think it is. The fact is the average senior group is slower, because being old they can't move as quick - that's just nature. As for ladies, obviously there are plenty of great female golfers, but at my club at least the vast majority are off 30+ and only knock it about 100 yards, so obviously their rounds are going to take longer as well. Clearly there are going to be exceptions to both, and it's more generalisation and tarring people with the same brush than outright sexism/ageism. But opinions may differ on that.

I agree in some part that there are older players who struggle physically on the course and can be very slow but I play in the vets league team and many of them are single figure golfers (not me) and will go round in under 80 very often, so they may well hit 20 shots less than much younger golfers and are just as quick between holes. A lot of the older golfers who are above single figures dont hit so far but pop the ball down the middle 3 times, chip on and putt out without a lot of the faffing around that similar handicapped younger players do. If a younger 18 handicapper hits wildly off the tee then they tend to be looking more often for their balls, something many vets do not do so much, and this can take a fair amount of time up

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I can see why you might suggest it was sexist or ageist, but in reality I don't think it is. The fact is the average senior group is slower, because being old they can't move as quick - that's just nature. As for ladies, obviously there are plenty of great female golfers, but at my club at least the vast majority are off 30+ and only knock it about 100 yards, so obviously their rounds are going to take longer as well. Clearly there are going to be exceptions to both, and it's more generalisation and tarring people with the same brush than outright sexism/ageism. But opinions may differ on that.

It is not the pace of walking that dictates the time you take but the pace of play.

Looking for balls, reference to GPS devices elaborate pre-shot routines, scorecard filling; all these add up.

The older golfer tends to do less of this. How, otherwise, do you explain my regular PP's and I consistently getting round in 3 hours for 18 holes off the whites (6400 yds). Two of the group are 73 and I am 71 with two dodgy knees and a hip due for replacement.

Generalisation is dangerous. ?

 

[Orikoru]

I agree in some part that there are older players who struggle physically on the course and can be very slow but I play in the vets league team and many of them are single figure golfers (not me) and will go round in under 80 very often, so they may well hit 20 shots less than much younger golfers and are just as quick between holes. A lot of the older golfers who are above single figures dont hit so far but pop the ball down the middle 3 times, chip on and putt out without a lot of the faffing around that similar handicapped younger players do. If a younger 18 handicapper hits wildly off the tee then they tend to be looking more often for their balls, something many vets do not do so much, and this can take a fair amount of time up

I don't disagree, as I said there are of course exceptions. But when someone posts that they were held up by a group of seniors - I think the intention is to give us a picture of why/how they were slow (i.e. we can picture what a particularly slow group of seniors looks like) - not necessarily to imply that all seniors are slow.

 

[Orikoru]

It is not the pace of walking that dictates the time you take but the pace of play.

Looking for balls, reference to GPS devices elaborate pre-shot routines, scorecard filling; all these add up.

The older golfer tends to do less of this. How, otherwise, do you explain my regular PP's and I consistently getting round in 3 hours for 18 holes off the whites (6400 yds). Two of the group are 73 and I am 71 with two dodgy knees and a hip due for replacement.

Generalisation is dangerous. ?

You say that but last week I was in fact behind a group of four older gentleman who absolutely dawdled around the course. Literally just shuffling up the fairway at snail's pace. It can be a factor.

Edit: That sounded mean, I'm not saying it was their fault that they can't move quicker, and we weren't impatient to get by them either - just simply that it can add time.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

You say that but last week I was in fact behind a group of four older gentleman who absolutely dawdled around the course. Literally just shuffling up the fairway at snail's pace. It can be a factor.

And on that experience you condemn all older golfers.?

We recently followed two thirty somethings and they held us up for 9 holes, until the Halfway House, should we, therefore, suggest that younger golfers are the problem?

Of course not, it would be generalisation!

 

[Orikoru]

And on that experience you condemn all older golfers.?

Did I? No of course I didn't. Not going to bother continuing this if you're not going to read properly.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

And on that experience you condemn all older golfers.?

We recently followed two thirty somethings and they held us up for 9 holes, until the Halfway House, should we, therefore, suggest that younger golfers are the problem?

Of course not, it would be generalisation!

Condemn? Lol.

 

[Slime]

And on that experience you condemn all older golfers.?

We recently followed two thirty somethings and they held us up for 9 holes, until the Halfway House, should we, therefore, suggest that younger golfers are the problem?

Of course not, it would be generalisation!

No, how did you get to that conclusion?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

As long as people are sticking to facts is it an issue?

 

[robinthehood]

As long as people are sticking to facts is it an issue?

Yes , probably worth booking yourself on the UB course.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Did I? No of course I didn't. Not going to bother continuing this if you're not going to read properly.

Your words not mine.

"The fact is that the average senior group is slower...."

No facts to support your claim but a subsequent reference to ONE group and their pace.

 

[bobmac]

I The fact is the average senior group is slower, because being old they can't move as quick - that's just nature.

And on that experience you condemn all older golfers.?

Would you agree the ''average'' would not mean ''all''?

 

[Orikoru]

Your words not mine.

"The fact is that the average senior group is slower...."

No facts to support your claim but a subsequent reference to ONE group and their pace.

You know average doesn't mean all, don't you? Also you have trimmed the sentence where I clarified I was talking about physical motion. That's just science and nature buddy. It comes to us all.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

You know average doesn't mean all, don't you? Also you have trimmed the sentence where I clarified I was talking about physical motion. That's just science and nature buddy. It comes to us all.

And as I said it does not necessarily equate to pace of play.

The average 33 year old will walk the length of a 400 yard par 4 around 35 secs quicker than the average 73 year old.

So on that basis the younger golfer should be quicker round the course.

However, if you then have to make allowance for some or all of the other factors I mentioned earlier that gain can very soon be lost and even reversed.

 

[Orikoru]

And as I said it does not necessarily equate to pace of play.

You're ignoring the context of the thread. OP asked why do people mention that the group were senior (or female) when describing slow play. My answer was that they are just trying to help you picture the scene and the possible reasons for slowness - if they were senior then one possible reason is that they simply can't move as quick. I said there was obviously exceptions as well. It's that simple. I didn't come on here saying that all the old codgers are ruining golf with their slowness did I? Get a grip.

 

[Ethan]

Reading a number of threads on here, mainly the ones that involve moaning - slow play, etc, it seems that a lot of posters are suffering from unconscious bias and need to take a look at themselves. The amount of people who have to point out the two ball in front were ladies, seniors (or worse still,both) is quite frightening. Surely , if you aren’t sexist or ageist it should be enough to say it was a two ball without referring to any other characteristics. I hope no-one would refer to a black or disabled two ball but it seems acceptable to mention age or sex. Maybe the mods need to keep an eye on this?
And before anyone mentions, I am neither female or old?

Ironically, I think you need to take the course on unconscious bias yourself, because you seem to display some. Also, that post looks a lot like moaning too.