Two blokes having fun on a golf course. Heavens forbid. It makes golf look a little silly with such rigid responses. Any other sport and the official has a quiet word with the people involved and that's enough.
Disqualification under 6.1b (2)
- Thread starter DPWD1954
- Start date
doublebogey7
Head Pro
That's Clearly not the case, if a referee in just about every sport observes a breaking of te rules, then he will award some sort of penalty i.e in football a free kick.
Penalise a shot then, not dq. There is clearly no practising happening, one bloke has set a dare, a daft comment, and the other has bit. It's a bit of daftness in an amateur weekend comp with nothing at stake. It isn't open qualifying.
Colin L
Tour Winner
The penalty has to be whatever the rules state it to be. But take another look at what has been said. The shot from the red tee gets a 2 stroke penalty. It doesn't matter that practising wasn't the player's intention. An extraneous shot with another ball in the course of playing a hole is penalised as a practice shot because it has the same potential to assist you in your game as one deliberately made for the purpose of practising. Innocent errors get penalised because of their potential to give a player an advantage.
The responses may seem "rigid" to you but they are responses to the question "what is the ruling here" and as such give answers as to what the rules dictate. I think that's what the OP wanted.
bobmac
Major Champion
So the club committee can't use their discretion in certain cases?
I totally accept your last paragraph. Question asked, question answered. No criticism of the answers or the posters giving those answers. They are factual answers.
Personally I think discretion could be used in instances like this, as it is in many sports, but I'm well aware that golf doesn't like discretion as an option.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Just to reiterate. He was not starting the hole so 6.1b(2) is incorrect.
His second shot, which you say was not a practice stroke, from the ladies tee may or may not have been from a wrong place depending on whether it satisfied the 'back on line' criteria. If it did not satisfy the criteria it was a wrong place (14.7a General penalty) but he would have corrected it by locating, dropping and playing the first ball (14.7b)
If it satisfied the criteria there was no penalty but he then played another ball (his original). You say his second ball did not clear the ditch. So locating, dropping and playing the first ball would be taking relief for the second ball in the ditch. This may or may not have been from a wrong place (14.7a) but not a serious breach.
Just what was the DQable offence?
doublebogey7
Head Pro
Most here are suggesting a two shot penalty for practising during the playing of a hole Rule 5.5a, as do I. If that is not practicing what is it.
Larking about. Golf doesn't allow for a quiet word but it would have sufficed in this instance.
rulefan
Tour Winner
doublebogey7
Head Pro
No, and for good reason. In golf unlike most other sports we don't have a referee following our every move, so there must be an appropriate penalty when a rule is broken.
doublebogey7
Head Pro
If you wish to "lark about" stick to social golf, nobody is forcing anyone to take part in competitions.
RichA
Well-known member
From someone who is new to playing in "competitive" golf, this question is seeking to learn, not disagree with anyone...
Is it relevant to punishment (penalty shots or DQ) whether the breach of whichever rule was identified at the time and marked on the card, as opposed to identified after the cards were completed and signed?
Is it relevant to punishment (penalty shots or DQ) whether the breach of whichever rule was identified at the time and marked on the card, as opposed to identified after the cards were completed and signed?
bobmac
Major Champion
So no discretion allowed when applying the rules of a game.
How about a policeman who IS allowed to use his/her discretion when applying the laws of the land/road
ie giving you a warning for doing 55 in a 50 limit?
Are the rules of golf more important than the laws of the land?
rulefan
Tour Winner
RichA
Well-known member
Can't view the USGA rules in the UK without downloading the app and registering.
When I browsed the R&A rules it looked like the penalty for a practice stroke was 2 shots, if identified during the round, but disqualification if identified after certification, signing and submission of card to the committee.
Is it not that simple?
I'm guessing the difference is how seriously we assume the small print rules are applied by "the committee" to what seem like minor, midweek rounds involving amateurs like me who don't know them all.
I take it seriously with myself but don't worry too much what other folks get up to when there's only a quid at stake.
I didn't know this was even a rule until I read this thread and remembered seeing it quoted for a DQ in one of our comps last week.
I had hoped that after retiring from football and cricket, I was playing in a simpler sport, in terms of rule interpretation.
Another fail on my part, by the looks of it.
wjemather
Well-known member
You need the full rules: https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/the-rules-of-golf/rule-3#3-3b. See the section titled "Exception – Failure to Include Unknown Penalty".
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Questions that need answering
Did the committee find out about what happened before or after they closed the competition and did he get the news before or after the competition was closed?
If it was after
Committee Procedures
Rule 20.2 e
But a player must be disqualified even after the competition is closed if he or she:
- Returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken for any reason other than failing to include one or more penalty strokes that, before the competition closed, the player did not know about (see Rule 3.3b(3)),
Last edited:
RichA
Well-known member
That looks like the closest thing to an answer to the OP's question.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Odd. I can get all the USGA stuff without any problems.
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