Dangerous dogs?

Robster59

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It has been said that there is no such thing as a bad dog, just a bad owner. As a rule I tend to prescribe to that.
BUT... in reality there are some dogs which have been bred to be aggressive. However, in the XL Bully, you have a dog, IMHO, specifically bred to be a status symbol. Why on earth would you want one of these unless you want to show " 'ow 'ard " you are? I think well-owned Staffies are some of the daftest dogs on the planet. Most standard American Bulldogs again just want to be your friend.

Our dog is a rescue from Romania. He was born in the rescue centre so has no trauma. He has the body of a lab, the legs of a dachsund/bassett, the head is like a cross between a dachsund and lab and he is brindle coloured. He likes to make friends with people and dogs but is pretty much nervous of anything, including leaves going by on windy days, wheely bins and anything he hasn't seen before. He has a bark that a Rottweiler would be proud of and when he wants to make friends he tends to jump up and down on his lead and woof and bark. I know this is his way of want to say hello, but other people don't, and I am trying to teach it out of him. I do walk him off his lead but if I see anyone coming towards me who I don't know, I will tend to put him back on his lead because I don't know their attitude to dogs and I also don't believe you can ever really say about any dog that he won't hurt you. Dogs can turn, whether we want to believe it of our angel or not. I am sure someone will come on and say "our little fido would never attack anyone", but it can happen, and if it did, would you ever forgive yourself?

However, the XL Bullys are owned by people who get them and then dock (mutilate) them to increase the aggressive look. It's been illegal for over 10 years in the UK to dock your dogs but nearly all of these dogs are docked. The only reason they do it is to increase the agressive look of the dog.
The issue is that these dogs attract the wrong owners. If their dog barks and growls a bit, that's what they want. They aren't interested in training the aggressiveness out of them, that's what they want from the dog. And they will pay a lot of money to get one.
I feel sorry for the dogs. Some of the issues that they encounter when they are bred make even walking incredibly painful.

Something has to be done about the breeding of these dogs but unless the breeder is KC Registered (even if it is a recognised breed), it is very difficult to police. During lockdown we had a number of people who wanted to buy kit off us for Artificial Insemination of dogs. We hardly supplied any as people were breeding from their backyard, were not KC Registered or even registered with a vet. If the XL Bully goes, they'll just move on to something else. As they did when all the other breeds were banned.

I don't know how many have seen this programme but it's worth a watch.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001hjbw/panorama-dogs-dealers-and-organised-crime
 

GB72

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This is something I hate, how dogs have become a business and this was happening a lot over lockdown. The right dog could rake in thousands of pounds for the owner through the sale of puppies and it was all totally unregulated.

I am a massive lover of dogs, I am just now home enough to have one and be fair to the dog, but I see a massive need for control and regulation on the breeding and sale of dogs in general especially with so many unwanted dogs needing a home. This in itself would then help in the control of breeds that are seen as dangerous.
 

cliveb

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It seems to me the general consensus on this thread is that the problem is with the type of person who tends to own these kind of dogs.

Given that a dog can be dangerous, perhaps the owners should have to acquire a licence to allow them to own dogs, just like they need a licence to own and/or operate other potentially dangerous things (like guns and cars). Gaining such a licence should involve some kind of psychological assessment that you aren't going to be using your dog as a weapon.
 

Robster59

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It seems to me the general consensus on this thread is that the problem is with the type of person who tends to own these kind of dogs.

Given that a dog can be dangerous, perhaps the owners should have to acquire a licence to allow them to own dogs, just like they need a licence to own and/or operate other potentially dangerous things (like guns and cars). Gaining such a licence should involve some kind of psychological assessment that you aren't going to be using your dog as a weapon.
The trouble is that it has to be enforcable. The old dog licence has been removed but dogs now have to be microchipped by law. Dogs should not be docked by law. Puppy farms are banned. But it still happens. The people who own these types of dogs won't give a monkeys about any regulations. I wonder how many docked XL bullys are microchipped? I'd hazard a guess to not many.
 

GB72

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I wish there was a solution to puppy farming. Sadly, and I have seen people do it, they look at it as several thousand pounds cash in hand every year. People will pay the money as the price from legitimate breeders is even higher.
 
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At the end of the day they are animals and it’s near on impossible to know what they are thinking or how they will react. They can’t communicate with us but we try our best to connect with them

We can only guess what their natural instincts

It hard to put things in place to sort out the minority that doesn’t affect the majority

99% of dogs and dog owners are perfectly harmless and wouldn’t harm anyone , when we have our walks around the parks and lake we always see loads of dogs , some on leashes , some wondering around - whilst I’m always very nervous when they go near my daughter she seems to have good instincts and hasn’t had any issues and most just lick her to death or want the ball thrown

The mother in law has a Jack Russell who loves playing with my daughter and her cousin

But whenever I hear of issues about dogs and attacks it always seems to be the same sort of breed - Pitbull , Staffy etc

There is one bloke who walks around with a staffy , he has mental issues and the staffy is he friend but I know the people in the park are always worried because he doesn’t appear to have any control

Now whilst it seems ok that’s prob the sort of dog ownership that shouldn’t happen and there are breeds that shouldn’t be owned - how that can happen I have no idea - tagging , chip , license but we know people will avoid it
 

TimShady

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It’s amazing how many people seem to know this magical 99% statistic. You should pass that on to the authorities.
 

GB72

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I do find more recently that there is a reduction in consideration from dog owners when it comes to leashes. In public spaces there will always be people who are afraid of dogs. maybe allergic or maybe just do not like animals around them in general. I hate to think how many times I have had a dog off a leash bound over, sometimes even jump up and the owner normally comes out with the standard 'don't mind him, he is harmless'. Yes, he may be but he may not or I may simply not like dogs or be scared (as mentioned above, I love dogs but can still see problems).
 

clubchamp98

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I do find more recently that there is a reduction in consideration from dog owners when it comes to leashes. In public spaces there will always be people who are afraid of dogs. maybe allergic or maybe just do not like animals around them in general. I hate to think how many times I have had a dog off a leash bound over, sometimes even jump up and the owner normally comes out with the standard 'don't mind him, he is harmless'. Yes, he may be but he may not or I may simply not like dogs or be scared (as mentioned above, I love dogs but can still see problems).
Yes that’s me I have a fear of dogs for a reason ( attacked when young)
I just don’t like dogs near me.

I would suggest in public you can let it off its lead if muzzled.
must stay on its lead if not muzzled.

I cycle a lot and must say vast majority of owners are fine , I make a point of saying “ thank you “ if they hold or call their dog to let me pass.

But there are some right arrogant owners who think the path is just for them and their dog.!

Those XL Bully things are the things I fear most, if one gets hold of you your toast.
At least you have a chance with a “ normal dog”!
 

AmandaJR

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I do find more recently that there is a reduction in consideration from dog owners when it comes to leashes. In public spaces there will always be people who are afraid of dogs. maybe allergic or maybe just do not like animals around them in general. I hate to think how many times I have had a dog off a leash bound over, sometimes even jump up and the owner normally comes out with the standard 'don't mind him, he is harmless'. Yes, he may be but he may not or I may simply not like dogs or be scared (as mentioned above, I love dogs but can still see problems).

There is no doubt that the Covid effect is real. Impulsive buys during lockdown and then no puppy/training classes running. No opportunities to socialise the dogs during their most important stage of life and basically unscrupulous breeders and clueless new dog owners. Recipe for disaster. All the rescues I know are full to bursting of dogs that have been given up but also have issues and are tough to rehome.
 

Robster59

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There is no doubt that the Covid effect is real. Impulsive buys during lockdown and then no puppy/training classes running. No opportunities to socialise the dogs during their most important stage of life and basically unscrupulous breeders and clueless new dog owners. Recipe for disaster. All the rescues I know are full to bursting of dogs that have been given up but also have issues and are tough to rehome.
That is undoubtedly an issue. Inexperienced owners and dogs that haven't been socialised. I've made sure that our boy interacts with as many people and dogs as he can.
But we have a friend who got their dog about a month after ours. That dog only leaves the house too go into the garden, doesn't interact with other people's of dogs and so barks every time someone goes into the house. Not out of aggression but of fear and nerves. I feel sorry for it. There are reasons why this is the case, not reasonable to me, and we've told them the dog need to be out socialising.
 

clubchamp98

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That is undoubtedly an issue. Inexperienced owners and dogs that haven't been socialised. I've made sure that our boy interacts with as many people and dogs as he can.
But we have a friend who got their dog about a month after ours. That dog only leaves the house too go into the garden, doesn't interact with other people's of dogs and so barks every time someone goes into the house. Not out of aggression but of fear and nerves. I feel sorry for it. There are reasons why this is the case, not reasonable to me, and we've told them the dog need to be out socialising.
Give the RSPCA a call.
Thats just a dog in prison.
Some people should not have dogs.
 

AmandaJR

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That is undoubtedly an issue. Inexperienced owners and dogs that haven't been socialised. I've made sure that our boy interacts with as many people and dogs as he can.
But we have a friend who got their dog about a month after ours. That dog only leaves the house too go into the garden, doesn't interact with other people's of dogs and so barks every time someone goes into the house. Not out of aggression but of fear and nerves. I feel sorry for it. There are reasons why this is the case, not reasonable to me, and we've told them the dog need to be out socialising.

Yep. Unlike the XL (which is prey drive coupled with no/inappropriate training) many dogs reactivity is down to fear. If they haven't experienced much of what they'll encounter in life at an early age then it becomes something very scary to them. Some dogs will be aggressive when scared - get in there first attitude. So many dogs like your friend's become too difficult to handle and are given up. Then the rescue has a problem rehoming as it is usually an adult only, experienced home that is required as too risky otherwise.
 
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Robster59

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Give the RSPCA a call.
Thats just a dog in prison.
Some people should not have dogs.
Yep. Unlike the XL (which is prey drive coupled with no/inappropriate training) many dogs reactivity is down to fear. If they haven't experienced much of what they'll encounter in life at an early age then it becomes something very scary to them. Some dogs will be aggressive when scared - get in there first attitude. So many dogs like your friend's become too difficult to handle and are given up. Then the rescue has a problem rehoming as it is usually an adult only, experienced home that is required as too risky otherwise.
Agreed.

Would you let a friend imprison a child like this?

The fact they’re a friend means nothing here imo.
Don't get me wrong. The animal is well cared for, there is someone in the house 24/7 and she gets outside into the garden a lot, but she is just not socialised. And the particular friend is an experienced dog owner but the circumstances have changed. She used to stay at home and look after the dogs while her husband worked away. He is now retired but she has to work to keep the money coming in. He doesn't take the dog out but instead just lets it into the garden for exercise. It's a decent sized garden but they are just not being socialised to meet other dogs and people. She is fine with everyone in the house but doesn't know how to handle strangers.
Her previous dogs were well socialised and were mega friendly to everyone who came in. This highlights how important it is to get a dog out and meeting people and other dogs.
 

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Maybe dogs should earn the right to be off the lead in public outdoor areas etc

So until a dog has demonstrated the ability to obey its owners commands without fail in everyday situations like being in same space with playing/shouting children, interacting with other animals, traffic noise, ppl on bicycles, people playing ball sports etc, then it must be kept on a lead

Once it passes its ‘badges’ then it has more freedom
 

clubchamp98

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Maybe dogs should earn the right to be off the lead in public outdoor areas etc

So until a dog has demonstrated the ability to obey its owners commands without fail in everyday situations like being in same space with playing/shouting children, interacting with other animals, traffic noise, ppl on bicycles, people playing ball sports etc, then it must be kept on a lead

Once it passes its ‘badges’ then it has more freedom
Where do you pin a badge on a dog 🐶
 
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