CSS Farce

[FairwayDodger]

I know this has been done before but you can't search for "CSS" so we're doing it again rather than reviving an old thread.....

Why should high handicappers, cat 3 or 4, have an impact on the handicaps of better players by affecting CSS with scores in their rather large buffer zones?

Cat 1 and cat 4 players in particular are playing the game in very different ways to the extent that conditions can penalise one and benefit the other. For example, short hitters love firm fairways for the extra distance it affords them whereas it can bring an additional problem for better players dealing with hard bounces and the prospect of running out of fairway etc. Similarly the wind can be a big factor for better players to consider while higher handicaps find it little more than an annoyance since they don't launch the ball high at the best of times.

Yes it's a rant because I'm aggrieved after seemingly making my buffer by playing well in challenging conditions only to find CSS reduced by a posse of high handicappers scoring in their buffers.

I've benefited from CSS going up on days that I've played badly but I would have deserved +0.1 on those days and could have accepted it easily. Last night is a sore one and, on balance, I'd rather play to SSS every time and stand or fall on my own merits.


Pretty sure there must be a few paid up members of the "I hate CSS Club" on here....?

 

[alexbrownmp]

I know this has been done before but you can't search for "CSS" so we're doing it again rather than reviving an old thread.....

Why should high handicappers, cat 3 or 4, have an impact on the handicaps of better players by affecting CSS with scores in their rather large buffer zones?

Cat 1 and cat 4 players in particular are playing the game in very different ways to the extent that conditions can penalise one and benefit the other. For example, short hitters love firm fairways for the extra distance it affords them whereas it can bring an additional problem for better players dealing with hard bounces and the prospect of running out of fairway etc. Similarly the wind can be a big factor for better players to consider while higher handicaps find it little more than an annoyance since they don't launch the ball high at the best of times.

Yes it's a rant because I'm aggrieved after seemingly making my buffer by playing well in challenging conditions only to find CSS reduced by a posse of high handicappers scoring in their buffers.

I've benefited from CSS going up on days that I've played badly but I would have deserved +0.1 on those days and could have accepted it easily. Last night is a sore one and, on balance, I'd rather play to SSS every time and stand or fall on my own merits.


Pretty sure there must be a few paid up members of the "I hate CSS Club" on here....?

I hear ya!

Our css comes down every week- I used to belong to a harder course and it went up at least 1 sometimes 2 everyweek which really helped low cappers. Currently unless I break par scratch I go up every week

 

[bladeplayer]

Not sure Cat 4 players have any bearing on it yet

But i hear what ur saying and agree wholeheartedly esp on the hard condition days and the css is the same as a perfect day

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cookelad]

Yes fully understand!

Our SSS is 1 under and occasionally CSS drops to 2, bearing in mind that there's already so little leeway between a good round and 0.1 increase taking 2 shots off us before we even start is a joke (I know CSS isn't calculated until the comp is closed). Been victim of the CSS a number of times when I've shot a shot or two under only to have the CSS reduced, damned thing never came up enough when I've had a stinker though!

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Cat 4 players are eliminated for men. Cat 5 are eliminated for women.

It's all done as percentages...so nn ‘normal’ playing conditions, for example, 37-68% of participating Category 1 players are expected to return Net scores to the SSS +2 or better. In contrast, in the same conditions only 16-30% of Category 3 players are expected to return Net scores to SSS +2 or better. In competition situations when course conditions are more or less favourable than ‘normal’ these
percentages will increase or decrease respectively,

 

[happyhacker]

Just reads as another bash on high handicappers and how they 'ruin it' for the low players. As you said yourself, you've benefitted the other way. It is swings and roundabouts over a season and I'd have some faith that the system works (better people than you and I put it in place).

 

[Backache]

I cannot comment on CSS but as a high handicapper who quite often plays with better golfers I can assure you that high handicappers get affected by the wind, generally more than Cat1 golfers.
We are slicers and hookers .

 

[pbrown7582]

it is what it is some you win some you lose. .........

 

[Khamelion]

Cat 4 player have no effect on CSS for the time being, we do come January 2016.

I really feel for those better players who have to deal with less than perfect conditions, it's such a shame that a better player can't play darts on to soft greens and have to put up with baked ground and high bounces.

You play to the conditions and adapt to that, you're playing the course and if the course is being a bitch and biting back, suck it up and change the shot you'll play.

While CSS is based on several things, one being the scores coming in, there are many cat 1 golfers who regardless of what others are doing, fail to return a card and subsequently affect the CSS calculation as well, so blaming CSS purely on Cat 3 golfers is wrong.

 

[MendieGK]

Cat 4 player have no effect on CSS for the time being, we do come January 2016.

I really feel for those better players who have to deal with less than perfect conditions, it's such a shame that a better player can't play darts on to soft greens and have to put up with baked ground and high bounces.

You play to the conditions and adapt to that, you're playing the course and if the course is being a bitch and biting back, suck it up and change the shot you'll play.

While CSS is based on several things, one being the scores coming in, there are many cat 1 golfers who regardless of what others are doing, fail to return a card and subsequently affect the CSS calculation as well, so blaming CSS purely on Cat 3 golfers is wrong.

But the issue here is that cat4s have a 4 shot buffer, if CSS gets reduced by 1 shot (all it can go down), they still have a 3 shot buffer + also most likely 1 or 2 clause 19 adjustments.

if CSS goes down for a cat 1 golfer, they have effectively lost their buffer.

the old saying 'if it aint broke, dont fix it' comes to mind

 

[FairwayDodger]

Thanks for all the "corrections" about cat 4. Remember I'm female so very much affected by cat 4 scores, thanks!

 

[FairwayDodger]

Just reads as another bash on high handicappers and how they 'ruin it' for the low players. As you said yourself, you've benefitted the other way. It is swings and roundabouts over a season and I'd have some faith that the system works (better people than you and I put it in place).

Definitely not intended to bash high handicappers, just the system. Yes it's swings and roundabouts but the point is it's wrong both ways - my handicap should be determined by how I play not how others play IMO.

 

[Spear-Chucker]

I've mumbled into my beard* about this before but ultimately no system is perfect and it's easier on stress levels to just go along with it. I've studied the maths, looked at other systems and not found the perfect answer.

OP, I'm sure you know this but local area scratch events are a great way to reduce hcp (with good play of course) as the css invariably goes up one or two.

I'm not sure that higher hcp's can be blamed (we're all part of the system) although the occasional tugging of a forelock or offering of a sedan chair and ostrich feather cooling combo might ease the pain for cat 1's.

*Metaphorical beard as I'm just not that 'hip'

 

[FairwayDodger]

I cannot comment on CSS but as a high handicapper who quite often plays with better golfers I can assure you that high handicappers get affected by the wind, generally more than Cat1 golfers.
We are slicers and hookers .

Lots that I play with seem to play under the wind, but point taken.

 

[MendieGK]

Thanks for all the "corrections" about cat 4. Remember I'm female so very much affected by cat 4 scores, thanks!

I would also imagine (correct me if i am wrong), that participant numbers are lower than the mens meaning it takes less good rounds for the SSS to be affected?

we have over 150ppl enter each of our events at the club, so it takes a lot of good/or bad golf for the SSS to move

 

[Foxholer]

@Kamelion and Bladeplayer...Read Fairway Dodger's Signature!!

@Karen (to save the above some time!). The simple remedy is to ALWAYS consider CSS as 1 below SSS! That way you get the benefit when it stays the same or goes up, but don't have the disappointment when it does go down. And I'd suspect, because of small fields, that you are off SSS a bit more than you should be anyway. Oh, and as it's a 'relative' metric anyway, as long as the same is happening to anyone you are competing against in the likes of Away comps, then it's actually of no real significance - statistically speaking! - so just accept it, like you might a shank or 3-putt !!

 

[FairwayDodger]

I would also imagine (correct me if i am wrong), that participant numbers are lower than the mens meaning it takes less good rounds for the SSS to be affected?

we have over 150ppl enter each of our events at the club, so it takes a lot of good/or bad golf for the SSS to move

Exactly. I feel when CSS changes it's less to do with conditions on the day and more down to pure chance as to how many players happened to have a good day or not.

I've actually seen CSS go down with only about two players in buffer - totally random!


Just to add, last night the conditions were pretty tough - I expected to struggle before we started and we'd all considered not bothering. Yet CSS went down. Previously I've played in perfect summer conditions, barely a breath of wind and seen CSS go "reductions only".

By my understanding of what CSS is trying to achieve it fails miserably and just provides a random adjustment at the end of the day. :rant:

 

[bladeplayer]

@Kamelion and Bladeplayer...Read Fairway Dodger's Signature!!

@Karen (to save the above some time!). The simple remedy is to ALWAYS consider CSS as 1 below SSS! That way you get the benefit when it stays the same or goes up, but don't have the disappointment when it does go down. And I'd suspect, because of small fields, that you are off SSS a bit more than you should be anyway. Oh, and as it's a 'relative' metric anyway, as long as the same is happening to anyone you are competing against in the likes of Away comps, then it's actually of no real significance - statistically speaking! - so just accept it, like you might a shank or 3-putt !!

I know alota fellas that hit the ball like a girl or worse in some cases.. (especially in Karens case)
Ta mate im aware Karen is a female , i was not however aware of the cat4 /5 status of the womens handicapping system

Thanks for all the "corrections" about cat 4. Remember I'm female so very much affected by cat 4 scores, thanks!

Apologies , i have never had experience of the ladies handicapping system , i was'nt even aware there was such thing as Cat 5

 

[FairwayDodger]

@Karen (to save the above some time!). The simple remedy is to ALWAYS consider CSS as 1 below SSS! That way you get the benefit when it stays the same or goes up, but don't have the disappointment when it does go down.

It's a good philosophy but with SSS at 1 under par I'm already playing catchup! Truth is I hadn't given it much thought - I don't add up my score but usually have an idea and I was pretty sure after 16 that I was 4 over so needed 2 pars for buffer. I did add it up before taking the par putt on 18 - didn't want to leave it short if it was for buffer and didn't want to race it past if it wasn't!!!

Hence the disappointment this morning!

 

[Khamelion]

@Kamelion and Bladeplayer...Read Fairway Dodger's Signature!!

From Fairwaydodger's signature it says "There is a reason why the Fairway Dodger hits it like a girl!", it doesn't say that FairwayDodger is male or female, the line could just be a flippant remark, just like the remark at the bottom of yours.

I was not aware that FD was female, I am aware now.

That written, I've still no sympathy for Cat1 golfers who feel hard done to, by higher category golfers affecting the CSS. Regardless of category, a golfers is still playing the course and if on any given day they are not good enough to beat the course, then they need to play better.