Course open when it shouldn't

[rulefan]

Very interesting reading, especially the fact that everyone's course seems to have at some stage opened but at the same time banned buggies.

I know of a different school of thought that says that if your club ban's buggies then you are potentially breaking the law and discriminating against those who can't walk the course.

Welcome peoples thoughts on that.....

Clubs should get the free legal advice available from the National Golf Clubs' Advisory Association (NGCAA). We did and avoided a potential law suit. We didn't change our policy just the words.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We've just gone to no buggies at all, trollies only allowed with a medical letter, everyone else carrying.
It's not hard to adapt, empty the bag out, carry half a set or buy a lighter bag.

We had a mixed Christmas comp today so trollies allowed (Carry preferred bur doubt many of our women of seniors would have obliged). Buggies for blue card holders only. I understand our club took advice from EGU and I think elsewhere so have tweaked the wording on our wet weather policy to avoid any issues. The way it lashed down this afternoon I'll be surprised if it is anything but carry tomorrow. With a final Christmas comp on Saturday they could do with trying to rest it as much as they can

 

[Diamond]

I have realised that there is a difference between the course being open and a course being enjoyable to play.
In my opinion I would rather the course close than be walking in a mud bath all day. It’s the only reason I would move to another club.

 

[williamalex1]

We pay a highly respected qualified head green keeper plus his 2 assistant green keepers 1 with 35 years experience the other with 20 years experience . [ plus another 2 staff ]
Any of the top 3 guys decide when the course should be open or closed.
Not some jumped up committee member with a badge, or one of the 500 members, that think they know better.Edit, except me of course

 

[phils226]

We pay a highly respected qualified head green keeper plus his 2 assistant green keepers 1 with 35 years experience the other with 20 years experience . [ plus another 2 staff ]
Any of the top 3 guys decide when the course should be open or closed.
Not some jumped up committee member with a badge, or one of the 500 members, that think they know better.Edit, except me of course

Absolutely agree - the problem is that they're not allowed to make such decisions unilaterally. Spoke to ours who said he'd have had carry only for most of the last three weeks but Club insist at least trolleys most days.

 

[williamalex1]

It's the green staff who make the decision every morning before the 1st tee time and post it online. The Greens convener or council also have the authority to close the course, when no green staff are available.
We've had a complete trolley and buggy ban for the last month, that was a council decision.

 

[IanM]

Our Head Green Keeper makes the call... that's what he is there for!

 

[backwoodsman]

Ours is currently open - but is very muddy & borderline with needing to close. Decision lies with the Course Manager (ie head greenkeeper) or the senior greenkeeper on duty. In my time as chair of Course Committee, I'd offer him my opinion (and usually he'd ask anyway) but always I told him the actual decision was his, and I'd back him whatever it

We've been "definitely no buggies" for a while and recently went to "no trolleys - unless you really, really need one". ie, we havent actually banned them, but are relying on peoples good judgement. The surprise is that people have taken heed and no-one seems to be trying things on. In the six games I've played since lockdown 2 , I've only seen 4 trolleys - despite the course being rammed.

 

[GB72]

I do sympathise with golf clubs at the moment. There are probably a number of clubs that should be closed due to the weather but with annual fees due, the clubs need to show members some value for money this year. You also have the comparative issue. If one club locally closes whilst another stays open, who is going to be the most attractive to members when the annual subs are due. To close straight after lockdown could be a disaster for many and so they stay open when they would shut in normal years. Add to that the fact that they are not sure if they will be asked to close again after Xmas and I think many may have little choice other than to keep the doors open as long as possible.

 

[hovis]

Is there any actual evidence that a trolley is bad for a course in winter conditions? The weight of a trolley spread over 3 wheels vs a 16 stone bloke with 10kg on his back walking the same path. I see deep foot prints all over the course in the winter. Don't see many deep wheel tracks!

 

[upsidedown]

The advantages of carrying is that golfers spread the wear by going where they choose but trolleys generally follow the same route as determined by the green keepers with their traffic management.EG commissioned STRI back in 2009 to do a study on differences between Carts, trolleys and carrying . Not surprisingly carts faired the worst by a long way then trolleys and carrying.
Researchers in America have calculated that the contact area for a
golfer walking and carrying their clubs round a 6,200 yard course would be 1,283 sq. ft. The
same calculation for a golfer using a cart was 61,845 sq. ft. These researchers also calculated
that the comparative contact area for a golfer with a pull trolley would be 12,909 sq. ft. Some
care is needed when using these calculations as the weight of the cart will be distributed over
a larger contact area.

 

[PJ87]

Before lockdown 2 ours closed a lot when it rained

Since lockdown 2 I think they trying to keep it open

Tees have moved (some off whites some of reds some off yellows so u play the yellow yardage overall but traffic gets moved about)

Roped off the really wet bits

Managing it well so we can just play

 

[backwoodsman]

Is there any actual evidence that a trolley is bad for a course in winter conditions? The weight of a trolley spread over 3 wheels vs a 16 stone bloke with 10kg on his back walking the same path. I see deep foot prints all over the course in the winter. Don't see many deep wheel tracks!

At our place, a lot of the problem is caused by wormcasts - which are very clayey and if squashed while wet, form a muddy patch, and which eventually dries to form a hard impenetrable crust. Neither the mud or thee dry crust are good. Say a trolley has three wheels, each 3 inches wide. Every trolley leaves the equivalent of a 9 inch track of squashed casts down the full length of the fairway. Walking doesn't cause same problem .

 

[sunshine]

Is there any actual evidence that a trolley is bad for a course in winter conditions? The weight of a trolley spread over 3 wheels vs a 16 stone bloke with 10kg on his back walking the same path. I see deep foot prints all over the course in the winter. Don't see many deep wheel tracks!

16 stone bloke is going to make the same amount of damage whether he has 10kg on his back or not.
Add a trolley and it’s 16 stone bloke plus 20kg of oversized tour bag and trolley battery etc with three wheels in continuous contact with the turf.
And every trolley and golfer is following the same route around greens, bunkers and tees. The golfer carrying his bag can walk across greens and tees so the damage is not concentrated.
Just seems common sense to me

 

[Robster59]

Is there any actual evidence that a trolley is bad for a course in winter conditions? The weight of a trolley spread over 3 wheels vs a 16 stone bloke with 10kg on his back walking the same path. I see deep foot prints all over the course in the winter. Don't see many deep wheel tracks!

In my experience a lot of damage is caused by the wheels spinning. Look at most golf trollies and the wheels are pretty smooth. Go up a hill, or over a particularly wet or muddy patch and the wheels spin. Most people then increase the speed to get more grip and so cause even more damage.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

In my experience a lot of damage is caused by the wheels spinning. Look at most good trollies and the wheels are pretty smooth. Go up a hill, or over a particularly wet or muddy patch and the wheels spin. Most people then increase the speed to get more grip and so cause even more damage.

We had a few really wet patches on the back nine at the weekend and there was some unintentional wheel spinning. As I predicted, the back nine was carry only today and trolleys allowed on the front but carry preferred. This was, those that can't don't want to carry can at least play 9 holes

 

[BubbaP]

Loving the posts with both stone and KG in the same paragraph ?? Only in the UK ?

 

[Robster59]

Loving the posts with both stone and KG in the same paragraph ?? Only in the UK ?

You have to remember we're also a nation where people talk about cold temperatures in degrees Celsius and warm temperatures in degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[Mandofred]

Not played Oakdale but lots of people have good things to say about it, but one of the things they do mention is that it gets wet in winter, I do think they have been doing deals and flexible memberships so it could be a good option. Flaxby closed not long after I moved here, have heard a range of stories about it. How does Knaresborough hold up in the winter?

Just noticed this message....not sure how I missed it.
Yep....about Oakdale, that's what I've heard. We had heard rumors at one time it may close....they spent a lot of money on some new building work (balcony/seating area?).....but those rumors seemed to have died. Again.....this is only from what I've heard from the other players. Knaresborough is "supposed" to be one of the drier courses. Even in this crappy weather they usually manage to get at least 9 holes open. Since I've joined they have added some new ditches for drainage that have helped quite a bit....and added to the nature of the course in a good way. The course is up on a hill, so if it wasn't for the clay it would play well during the winter. If they could only just dump about 6 inches of sand on it....that would probably do it. From what I am told....it's better than it used to be...the work they have done in recent years has helped. Even though the course was closed yesterday, I still went down and hit a bag of balls on the practice field....just enough melted to get by with it.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Trollies themselves do little damage to the course it is the footfall of users following the same track that causes the wear damage.
Four golfers carrying will approach and leave a green in four different directions. Four trolley users will generally all take the same path.
Which is ......shortest possible route to the next tee which also offers the least line of resistance.