Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Swinglowandslow]

I've now read the article in the ST - it does not paint a pretty picture.

I also read another lengthy article - this one by Tim Shipman - which concludes...

'It would have taken the prime minister only a few calls to realise his colleagues have left the driver's seat vacant'

And the two leader pieces. The first headed. Silence is not acceptable - ministers must tell us the plan which concludes...

'It is a plan...but it is said to be waiting the return to work of Boris Johnson, without whom decisions are not being taken. That is wrong. We have a system of cabinet government, not a presidency or dictatorship'

And the second headed. Business is too weak for a second wave of Brexit dogma which concludes...

'...poll of more than 2,0000 shows that...voters think the transition should be extended. They recognise that there are other priorities now and so should the government. It is it's reputation that will suffer from this dogmatism. Somebody needs to knock heads together. And fast.

All of the above quoted from the Sunday Times - a Tory and Brexit supporting newspaper. Whether I agree or disagree is another matter, so don't bother pushing back on me for the words of the Sunday Times.

IOW. -"you may think that, I couldn't possibly comment"

 

[Blue in Munich]

Yea we should definitely ignore expert advice and operate as we have been, with little real intervention from the top but with badges to say what a good job we’re all doing.

Do the Tories require any documents to be sexed up then?

 

[Golfmmad]

I've now read the article in the ST - it does not paint a pretty picture.

I also read another lengthy article - this one by Tim Shipman - which concludes...

'It would have taken the prime minister only a few calls to realise his colleagues have left the driver's seat vacant'

And the two leader pieces. The first headed. Silence is not acceptable - ministers must tell us the plan which concludes...

'It is a plan...but it is said to be waiting the return to work of Boris Johnson, without whom decisions are not being taken. That is wrong. We have a system of cabinet government, not a presidency or dictatorship'

And the second headed. Business is too weak for a second wave of Brexit dogma which concludes...

'...poll of more than 2,0000 shows that...voters think the transition should be extended. They recognise that there are other priorities now and so should the government. It is it's reputation that will suffer from this dogmatism. Somebody needs to knock heads together. And fast.

All of the above quoted from the Sunday Times - a Tory and Brexit supporting newspaper. Whether I agree or disagree is another matter, so don't bother pushing back on me for the words of the Sunday Times.

Did you also read the response from the Government that Colchester posted?
That response is good enough for me, especially when the original ST article was full of HINDSIGHT!

 

[User62651]

Mr Gove should learn from history.

The Tories tend to turn against any coup leader. Remember Heseltine post Thatcher.

What, like how they did when Johnson went for and removed both Cameron and then May?
What goes around comes around.....hopefully.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Did you also read the response from the Government that Colchester posted?
That response is good enough for me, especially when the original ST article was full of HINDSIGHT!

I said that I read the ST articles and the Leaders.

None of it was particularly positive or supportive of our PM or the current government.

I have not made any comment on whether or not I think both main articles and the leader commentaries were reasonable or not.

If you haven't managed to read the paper - the ST criticism was not all about our PMs response and leadership since January. The Insight team article was about that; the Shipman piece was about the cabinet and it's decision making without Johnson; one of the leaders was about an Exit Plan; the second leader was about Brexit Transition.

And all of that in one edition of a Tory Party and Brexit supporting newspaper. And even the Daily Mail is making similar comments on some of it. Before long someone will be telling us that it's all all Fake News from the lying and anti-Conservative MSM...

There was another article in the paper about government plans for opening schools (in some way, shape or form) from 11th May. In yesterday's briefing Gavin Williamson denied there was any such date being considered. It might be pencilled-in and subject to a load of caveats - and we can all get that - but he seemed to deny there was any such date in mind. End of.

I just read what was written and thought it didn't sound great. And then I wondered where the ST got the 11th May date from if it isn't even being considered. Anyway.

 

[MegaSteve]

Can't help feeling we'd be better off with Ms May still at the helm...

 

[Old Skier]

I said that I read the ST articles and the Leaders.

None of it was particularly positive or supportive of our PM or the current government.

I have not made any comment on whether or not I think both main articles and the leader commentary were reasonable or not.

They was not all about our PMs response and leadership since January. The Insight team article was; the Shipman piece was about the cabinet and it's decision making without Johnson; one of the leaders was about an Exit Plan; the second leader was about Brexit Transition.

And all of that in one edition of a Tory Party and Brexit supporting newspaper. And even the Daily Mail is making similar comments on some of it. Before long someone will be telling us that it's all all Fake News from the lying and anti-democratic MSM...

I just read what was written and wondered.

One assumes you can't be bothered to read the Government response. Let's take a paper, one that on the same day lied about the availableity of the Veterans help line, as good and true facts.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Can't help feeling we'd be better off with Ms May still at the helm...

??????

Or is that one of those quotes where someone adds 'said no one, ever'

 

[MegaSteve]

??????

Or is that one of those quotes where someone adds 'said no one, ever'

Well, I feel her top priority wasn't herself... And, we wouldn't be having to put up with Gavin Williamson...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

One assumes you can't be bothered to read the Government response. Let's take a paper, one that on the same day lied about the availableity of the Veterans help line, as good and true facts.

See what you are doing - you doing exactly what happened when Owen Jones tweeted a link to the article. You are attacking the messenger rather than responding to the criticism across a number of fronts that has been made in a Tory Party and Brexit supporting newspaper, and you are also dismissing the newspaper as being untrustworthy on the basis of a historic and completely unrelated piece of journalism.

I have made absolutely no comment whatsoever on the criticism other than pointing out the denial by Williamson on the 11th May date.

 

[Golfmmad]

I said that I read the ST articles and the Leaders.

None of it was particularly positive or supportive of our PM or the current government.

I have not made any comment on whether or not I think both main articles and the leader commentaries were reasonable or not.

If you haven't managed to read the paper - the ST criticism was not all about our PMs response and leadership since January. The Insight team article was about that; the Shipman piece was about the cabinet and it's decision making without Johnson; one of the leaders was about an Exit Plan; the second leader was about Brexit Transition.

And all of that in one edition of a Tory Party and Brexit supporting newspaper. And even the Daily Mail is making similar comments on some of it. Before long someone will be telling us that it's all all Fake News from the lying and anti-Conservative MSM...

There was another article in the paper about government plans for opening schools (in some way, shape or form) from 11th May. In yesterday's briefing Gavin Williamson denied there was any such date being considered. It might be pencilled-in and subject to a load of caveats - and we can all get that - but he seemed to deny there was any such date in mind. End of.

I just read what was written and thought it didn't sound great. And then I wondered where the ST got the 11th May date from if it isn't even being considered. Anyway.

But you did say, "It does not paint a pretty picture".
I did read the full St article but not the others you mentioned. If they were anything like the original then I wouldn't be interested in reading them.
To be honest I'm so annoyed at all the negative media comments, including some posts on here when we are dealing with such an unprecedented situation that we are all in right now.
I notice that after yesterday's briefing that nobody has mentioned the full and factual responses that Jenny Harries gave to two of the female journalists. She gave such a clear and informative reply to both questions. It left me thinking that there really is a whole lot going on behind the scenes that we have no idea of what is actually involved in the learning and information gathering that goes on. It was a real eye opener for me.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

See what you are doing - you doing exactly what happened when Owen Jones tweeted a link to the article. You are attacking the messenger rather than responding to the criticism across a number of fronts that has been made in a Tory Party and Brexit supporting newspaper, and you are also dismissing the newspaper as being untrustworthy on the basis of a historic and completely unrelated piece of journalism.

I have made absolutely no comment whatsoever on the criticism other than pointing out the denial by Williamson on the 11th May date.

So are you saying that you believe in its entirety the contents of the ST article?

And whilst the paper did endorse the Conservatives at the last election, that was due to the party's stance on Brexit.

It would be wrong to claim that the Sunday Times is or ever has been an unquestioning supporter of the Tories.

 

[MegaSteve]

So are you saying that you believe in its entirety the contents of the ST article?

And whilst the paper did endorse the Conservatives at the last election, that was due to the party's stance on Brexit.

It would be wrong to claim that the Sunday Times is or ever has been an unquestioning supporter of the Tories.

Rather think any publication that gives space to Rod Liddle and Clarkson can't be anything other than a Tory mouthpiece...

Though, to be fair, they did publish a letter from Alan Johnson yesterday...

 

[Old Skier]

In normal times. These are not normal times. And they were not normal times back late Jan and Feb.

Is this the Jan & Feb when the WHO were saying they thought it was an epidemic and not a pandemic and there was major flooding in the north affecting people's lives.

 

[Old Skier]

See what you are doing - you doing exactly what happened when Owen Jones tweeted a link to the article. You are attacking the messenger rather than responding to the criticism across a number of fronts that has been made in a Tory Party and Brexit supporting newspaper, and you are also dismissing the newspaper as being untrustworthy on the basis of a historic and completely unrelated piece of journalism.

I have made absolutely no comment whatsoever on the criticism other than pointing out the denial by Williamson on the 11th May date.

I am attacking the messenger as it was a message that didn't need delivering as you couldn't be bothered to publish the counter to the article.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

But you did say, "It does not paint a pretty picture".
I did read the full St article but not the others you mentioned. If they were anything like the original then I wouldn't be interested in reading them.
To be honest I'm so annoyed at all the negative media comments, including some posts on here when we are dealing with such an unprecedented situation that we are all in right now.
I notice that after yesterday's briefing that nobody has mentioned the full and factual responses that Jenny Harries gave to two of the female journalists. She gave such a clear and informative reply to both questions. It left me thinking that there really is a whole lot going on behind the scenes that we have no idea of what is actually involved in the learning and information gathering that goes on. It was a real eye opener for me.

Exactly! My feelings too. There was oblique inference in your post, SILH, which prompted my IOW response which I'm not sure you understood ?

 

[SocketRocket]

The government are still making political decisions that IMO are contrary to the good of the country and need to be challenged.

Day to day operational matters are different and, for those, they need help and support.

Please clarify

 

[Kellfire]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1252266724449230848

More indefensible actions from the government.

 

[Hobbit]

The government are still making political decisions that IMO are contrary to the good of the country and need to be challenged.

Day to day operational matters are different and, for those, they need help and support.

I think I'd argue that there are some things that need changing, e.g. an extension to the transition period. However, I'd say that the UK govt, a Tory govt at that, has put together a very impressive number of packages to support individuals and businesses through unprecedented times.

No doubt they'll miss some things but I feel they'll also hit some tough targets too.

 

[bluewolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1252266724449230848

More indefensible actions from the government.

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the Government currently, that is absolutely shocking (if proven - and it looks fairly damning). Heads must roll for that, if nothing else.