Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[bluewolf]

If the article stuck to the factual I'd give it far more credence. But little gems like this betray an agenda to me;

The prime minister had been sunning himself with his girlfriend in the millionaires’ Caribbean resort of Mustique when China first alerted the World Health Organisation (WHO) on December 31 that several cases of an unusual pneumonia had been recorded in Wuhan, a city of 11 million people in Hubei province.

Of what relevance is that to how he has performed afterwards; and how is it relevant how he spends his New Year? It's a snide little dig. If he has been that bad, the facts should stand on their own, if the authors need to resort to this then there's some substance lacking for me.

In all honesty. I actually agree that some shots are a little personal. Which is why I don’t think it’s an attack on the Government. I think that someone just declared a dirty war on Boris Johnson.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

To be fair (and I’m conscious of the fact that I’ve started 3 posts on this thread with that same line ?). Phil posted the article to prompt a discussion. It was immediately dragged off course absolutely unnecessarily by typical little potshots and sarcastic comments from people who should know better.

In fairness Phil rightly qualified his initial comment with the proviso that comment was dependent upon the article's contents being subject to verification.

He did, however, go on to condemn Johnson and even question the authenticity of his illness. IMO that is a cheap shot and I would assure you that I would feel exactly the same if a similar dig was aimed at Starmer or any other politician.

 

[Rlburnside]

With respect, the author of the piece in the ST wasn't Owen Jones...
Merely him that tweeted the article otherwise hidden behind a paywall...

Excuse my ignorance but what is a paywall

 

[bluewolf]

Excuse my ignorance but what is a paywall

A paywall is something that people should pay if they want to fund quality journalism. Or crap journalism for balance.
However, putting papers online will put me out of a job, so all you good people keep buying newspapers ?

 

[drdel]

There's no doubt that the Government and its advisers will be found to have made errors in their handling of the crisis.

However, having read the ST article I think there is too much of a danger of reaching a conclusion based upon not enough evidence at this stage.

Throughout the media have been quick to seize upon opinions and theories offered by those with a different view to that of the Govt. Understandable as, in their eyes at least, it makes for a good headline

This latest article is no different with much of its content attributed to unnamed sources and of the remainder much comes from those with a previously expressed difference of opinion to the Govt's advisers.

But a wonderful opportunity for the likes of Owen Jones to snipe.

Once the country emerges from this then and only then there should be an independent enquiry into the handling and all those giving evidence should be fully assured of immunity and protection from any action.

That is when questions should be asked, not now when all efforts should be focused on the present and dealing with the virus.

I agree with most of you comments but not about giving : immunity, anyone providing 'evidence' must be prepared to back it up, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I agree with most of you comments but not about giving : immunity, anyone providing 'evidence' must be prepared to back it up, IMO.

Immunity not anonymity.

If a whistleblower comes forward with genuine evidence (not just an unverified opinion) they should not have to fear for any retribution.

 

[Blue in Munich]

In all honesty. I actually agree that some shots are a little personal. Which is why I don’t think it’s an attack on the Government. I think that someone just declared a dirty war on Boris Johnson.

Fair comment; power struggle already?

 

[fundy]

A paywall is something that people should pay if they want to fund quality journalism. Or crap journalism for balance.
However, putting papers online will put me out of a job, so all you good people keep buying newspapers ?

That really is a tough paper round

 

[fundy]

Fair comment; power struggle already?

hardly a surprise another of them has delusions of grandeur, pretty sure what my opinion is of anyone from within who thinks this is the time to be stirring the pot for potential future personal gains

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Phil, re-read this and ask yourself whether you're following your own advice.

I try to make an effort to be as neutral as possible
I used the example of Owen Jones, I could easily have used a right wing commentator, the point being that at the moment political point scoring should be put aside

 

[Blue in Munich]

I didn't see it but read that Gove's defence this morning was "weak".

If it's Gove was it "weak" or "standard"?

 

[bluewolf]

Fair comment; power struggle already?

I’m not 100% sure. But I think that a certain someone may be positioning himself to take over if Boris is pushed out.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I’m not 100% sure. But I think that a certain someone may be positioning himself to take over if Boris is pushed out.

Mr Gove should learn from history.

The Tories tend to turn against any coup leader. Remember Heseltine post Thatcher.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I didn't see it but read that Gove's defence this morning was "weak".

I listened to that of IDS, and he went right down the Trumpian route - it’s all the fault of China and doubting the political impartiality of the unnamed source. Well thats just great. Nothing to do with our own handling of it - good to know ?

Where was Boris these 5 COBRA meetings? Doesn’t matter says IDS - PMs delegate as he did. Except we are seeing through the briefings in his absence an apparent unwillingness of a cabinet to make any significant decisions about anything - any of us could have made the decision to extend lockdown...but without BJ...? I am not sure that we are not on a fairly rudderless ship at the moment specifically on PPE and Testing.

And let’s not forget that Johnson disappeared for two weeks in that critical period. What was he doing at Chevening...?

I actually feel very sorry for Hancock at the moment. He didn’t want the job - and he has been lumbered with what now seems to be a bit of an albatross of 100,000 tests a day by end April, and we see how well that that is going. I don’t have the benefit of a time machine to look into the past but I suspect that it was not he who came up with that number.

It is an unfortunate state of affairs that we find that we have a cabinet chosen on the basis of their willingness to swear absolute fealty to Boris Johnson in respect of B. As a result many very competent Tory ex-ministers have retired or are watching from the sides as less competent or less experienced colleagues do their best...

And so we have Gavin Williamson doing the briefing today...

I note that though I have not read the ST piece - I heard all about it on the radio first thing and have the newspaper sitting in front of me to be read.

 

[Hobbit]

I listened to that of IDS, and he went right down the Trumpian route - it’s all the fault of China and doubting the political impartiality of the unnamed source. Well thats just great. Nothing to do with our own handling of it - good to know ?

Where was Boris these 5 COBRA meetings? Doesn’t matter says IDS - PMs delegate as he did. Except we are seeing through the briefings in his absence an apparent unwillingness of a cabinet to make any significant decisions about anything - any of us could have made the decision to extend lockdown...but without BJ...? I am not sure that we are not on a fairly rudderless ship at the moment specifically on PPE and Testing.

And let’s not forget that Johnson disappeared for two weeks in that critical period. What was he doing at Chevening...?

I actually feel very sorry for Hancock at the moment. He didn’t want the job - and he has been lumbered with what now seems to be a bit of an albatross of 100,000 tests a day by end April, and we see how well that that is going. I don’t have the benefit of a time machine to look into the past but I suspect that it was not he who came up with that number.

It is an unfortunate state of affairs that we find that we have a cabinet chosen on the basis of their willingness to swear absolute fealty to Boris Johnson in respect of B. As a result many very competent Tory ex-ministers have retired or are watching from the sides as less competent or less experienced colleagues do their best...

And so we have Gavin Williamson doing the briefing today...

I note that though I have not read the ST piece - I heard all about it on the radio first thing and have the newspaper sitting in front of me to be read.

On the issue of Johnson going missing for two weeks in that critical period. Two things; the govt had chosen its path, which its since realised was wrong and changed tack. And hindsight has determined it was a critical period.

There were missed opportunities, and some things might need to change going forward. Lets ask the questions and keep the govt focussed but do we have to have a with hunt now?

Hogie, didn't you say that in the main you agree with and support what the govt is trying to do. And now they're a bunch of yes-men...bit like Mary Poppins waiting for the wind to change?

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

In America, this issue is following political ideology almost perfectly.

Progressive liberals want a very conservative approach to going back to work. (I'm grateful to be never going back to work!)

Conservatives want an aggressive approach to re-opening the economy.

Thre is no such thing as a general consensus in the United States.

I'm at a loss as to how the republic has survived [sort of] so far.

 

[SocketRocket]

Immunity not anonymity.

If a whistleblower comes forward with genuine evidence (not just an unverified opinion) they should not have to fear for any retribution.

Unless the accusations are false.

 

[Hobbit]

I didn't bother reading once I reached the bit that said Hancock "bounced out of Downing St." Nowt like adding a bit of emotive spin to push the issue...

 

[jim8flog]

Thre is no such thing as a general consensus in the United States.

We are a fraction of your size and probably the only time there has been a general consensus in this country was 1939 to 1945 if my history is correct your country could not even get a general consensus then.

 

[ColchesterFC]

There are very many interesting and important points in the article that will need answering or addressing but my biggest problem is that it lacks any kind of balance. For example, the fact that we sent 279000 items of PPE to China to assist them with fighting the virus might very well be correct, but it is a useless figure unless they also record how many items of PPE we have received from China in return.

And Owen Jones hasn't just provided the info he's also put his own spin on it. His quote "By late January, the seriousness of the virus was clear, as was the fact it was going to imminently arrive on British shores" seems reasonable but to back up this point he's used a "study by Southampton Uni" that showed that "190000 people flew in to the UK from Wuhan and other high-risk Chinese cities between January and March." Now I've got no problem with him saying that by late January the risk was clear, if he provided evidence of that, but he can't support that point with a study that didn't end until March.