Club V1

My new club allows you to enter a score on the terminal (or club v1/hdid app) - it asks who the marker was but the marker isn't then required to confirm anything. No cards are ever handed in (either general play or competition), they are simply discarded after entering by the player.

This seems a bit odd but the club say they have checked and this is fine. Is this standard at other clubs?
Nope. Both my clubs need physical cards left in the box and signed as it always was before Covid. Much easier to check if needs be
 
Nope. Both my clubs need physical cards left in the box and signed as it always was before Covid. Much easier to check if needs be
As do we. Comp entries are done automatically (or for late entries by PSI). GP pre-declaration by app or PSI. Scores may be via app or PSI. All cards are in the box.
Asst Mgr checks for presence of cards day after comp and for GP cards two days after round.
 
Our club doesn't require physical cards. Scores can simply go straight on to MyEG or howdidido.

Players may submit physical cards if they wish, and they will be entered by Committee. It is my understanding this will be done even if there is no form of pre-registration, as there is a trust that players are not trying to manipulate the system.
 
Our club doesn't require physical cards. Scores can simply go straight on to MyEG or howdidido.

Players may submit physical cards if they wish, and they will be entered by Committee. It is my understanding this will be done even if there is no form of pre-registration, as there is a trust that players are not trying to manipulate the system.
I think your committee needs to have a look at its procedures and its obligations under WHS.
 
I think your committee needs to have a look at its procedures and its obligations under WHS.
Possibly do. Although, as some of the well informed often argue when people talk of handicap manipulation, they seem to put a lot of trust in the integrity of golfers and their markers. I guess if anyone wants to stand by that argument, then I guess they'' trust that all scores submitted in that box are genuine scores, and the golfer intended to submit a score before the round started?

Personally, I've had a good experience with the Committee. I went abroad for a week's holiday, and spoke to the handicap sec before I left to pre-register all 6 rounds. I e-mailed them to him after every round and the score was on my record before the following morning.

I suspect they'll trust members to submit scores with integrity, but perhaps they'll also keep a closer eye on scores submitted by physical cards, and if they detect any suspicious patterns, investigate further.
 
Possibly do. Although, as some of the well informed often argue when people talk of handicap manipulation, they seem to put a lot of trust in the integrity of golfers and their markers. I guess if anyone wants to stand by that argument, then I guess they'' trust that all scores submitted in that box are genuine scores, and the golfer intended to submit a score before the round started?

Personally, I've had a good experience with the Committee. I went abroad for a week's holiday, and spoke to the handicap sec before I left to pre-register all 6 rounds. I e-mailed them to him after every round and the score was on my record before the following morning.

I suspect they'll trust members to submit scores with integrity, but perhaps they'll also keep a closer eye on scores submitted by physical cards, and if they detect any suspicious patterns, investigate further.
There is a clear obligation on players to pre register on the day, via a method acceptable to the committee, for a score to be acceptable for handicapping under WHS. There is also a clear duty of the Handicap Committee to ensure players are abiding by the rules of WHS.
Hope and trust just doesn’t cut it. They need to be reminded of their responsibilities.
 
There is a clear obligation on players to pre register on the day, via a method acceptable to the committee, for a score to be acceptable for handicapping under WHS. There is also a clear duty of the Handicap Committee to ensure players are abiding by the rules of WHS.
Hope and trust just doesn’t cut it. They need to be reminded of their responsibilities.
I understand all this. I very much do.

But I also have no doubt that not all Committees are perfectly keeping on top of all of this in every case. I'm also sure there will be clubs doing much worse things. I heard a handicap secretary at another big club in the county, when I played there, telling another chap I was with that he demands that any players who score great scores socially must submit score after. He joked as he walked away "someone gets 45 points, their score is going in whether they like it or not"

Generally, WHS and using tech to submit many many GP scores was always going to cause headaches for Committees. Even if scores go in electronically, there are various ways in which players can manipulate the system anyway, without alerting the handicap committee easily. So I'm guessing, in our case, the guys at my club are trying to find the most practical way of managing the system for them.
 
I understand all this. I very much do.

But I also have no doubt that not all Committees are perfectly keeping on top of all of this in every case. I'm also sure there will be clubs doing much worse things. I heard a handicap secretary at another big club in the county, when I played there, telling another chap I was with that he demands that any players who score great scores socially must submit score after. He joked as he walked away "someone gets 45 points, their score is going in whether they like it or not"

Generally, WHS and using tech to submit many many GP scores was always going to cause headaches for Committees. Even if scores go in electronically, there are various ways in which players can manipulate the system anyway, without alerting the handicap committee easily. So I'm guessing, in our case, the guys at my club are trying to find the most practical way of managing the system for them.
I fully understand this but not having a basic procedure for pre registering general play scores using only a physical card is pretty simple yet very important stuff. All you need is, at its most basic, a tick in a book in the Pro Shop, hardly onerous. This is a clear fundamental duty and trusting to hope on this seems not exactly ‘the most practical way of managing the system’
 
Tell us more about how.
By not playing as seriously as they would I'm a comp.

One chap, who didn't really enjoy the groups he played in (most comps handicap order), submitted a load of GP rounds and missed an incredible amount of short putts. His index went from around 7 to 10, in the space of a couple of months. Probably less. On fact, it was from 6.6 to 9.9 from 22 May to 8 July to be precise, having just checked
 
By not playing as seriously as they would I'm a comp.

One chap, who didn't really enjoy the groups he played in (most comps handicap order), submitted a load of GP rounds and missed an incredible amount of short putts. His index went from around 7 to 10, in the space of a couple of months. Probably less. On fact, it was from 6.6 to 9.9 from 22 May to 8 July to be precise, having just checked
Not to trying to sound like a broken record but are your handicap committee (despite your ‘good experience’ with them) really doing their job? Your examples of behaviour in the club would suggest not.
 
Not to trying to sound like a broken record but are your handicap committee (despite your ‘good experience’ with them) really doing their job? Your examples of behaviour in the club would suggest not.
I played with the guy in a few of those rounds. I had zero idea he was manipulating anything. Just thought he was having a rubbish day. He wasn't hitting any worse shots than I've seen anyone hit.

I only personally noticed when I noticed his index, which was below mine at start, was now a lot worse in no time at all. Also knowing how he hated playing in early groups, it started to add up.

A handicap committee are not going to know that. Even if they see his index rise quickly, it doesn't point to manipulation. Loads of people I know have gone up 3 or more shots pretty quickly. I think I've even gone up 3 shots in 2 or 3 months, when I suddenly lost about 5 or 6 great scores I had in a purple patch, and was rubbish when submitting new scores
 
I only personally noticed when I noticed his index, which was below mine at start, was now a lot worse in no time at all. Also knowing how he hated playing in early groups, it started to add up.

A handicap committee are not going to know that.
Peer review is a powerful thing.
 
Peer review is a powerful thing.
Not sure I know of anyone that runs to the handicap committee to tell tales on their mates.

Maybe it happens a lot elsewhere. Of all the guys that know him, they know he definitely isn't doing it to win comps, and he isn't cleaning up in comps. So no one has really bat an eyelid.

Whereas another chap plays off 28 (used to be 20), doesn't hand in scores and his mates refuse to play for money if he is playing, ad constantly encourage him he needs to submit scores.

I'm also led to believe there are quite a few in a big group, may off low handicaps who only submit their better GP scores. I think they only register later in round, maybe after 9 holes, if they are on a good score.
 
Not sure I know of anyone that runs to the handicap committee to tell tales on their mates.
I assure you they do and frequently.

Committees regularly review members’ handicaps on this very basis, we see this all the time.

It is a key part of the Handicap Committee’s role.
 
I assure you they do and frequently.

Committees regularly review members’ handicaps on this very basis, we see this all the time.

It is a key part of the Handicap Committee’s role.
Sorry. I know of people that moan when their mates win the fiddle simply because they have high handicaps. In my experience, always in the Seniors section, never in main club. No idea why. However, there is often no accusation of a player manipulating their handicap, they are just annoyed their handicap is high and perhaps they don't have enough scores in.

What I'm talking about is, I'm unaware of anyone that plays with someone else, go running to committee and accusing that person of handicap manipulation. Perhaps there are a few our there, and usually those guys are the ones with the worst reputation at the club, that no one really wants to play with.

If someone manipulating a handicap actually becomes visible by winning a lot and many high place finishes, then fair enough. A few grumbles, they get noticed by Committee and there is evidence to possibly cut them again.
 
What I'm talking about is, I'm unaware of anyone that plays with someone else, go running to committee and accusing that person of handicap manipulation. Perhaps there are a few our there, and usually those guys are the ones with the worst reputation at the club, that no one really wants to play with.
You may be unaware of this but again I assure you that this is a common occurrence and if the committee is doing its job, they will investigate and act accordingly, often seeking advice from the County beforehand.
The Committee in a typical club of around 500+ members cannot be expected to know the behaviour of all members, someone needs to tell them.
 
Our club no longer accept physical cards.
We either use the App on outer phones or sign in via an iPad in the pro shop and enter scores via an iPad in the clubhouse. If there is an issue with the iPad then a picture if a card - completed - is acceptable
We require cards for comps and GP. We make an exception for GP scores entered via the MyEG app. as the attestation is strong.

As the attestation score on HDID is so weak (in our opinion) we require a card and marker information to check on the entered scores.
 
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