Club V1

[Swango1980]

You're right, county shouldn't need to be involved, because this is just so basic that no diligent and half-competent club/committee could possibly get it so badly wrong.

What isn't needed is people thinking it's ok (because no-one is complaining) and making lame excuses for what is going on. It needs fixing, because sooner or later, your county will hear about it and when they do, you could find yourself at a club that has been suspended from administering handicaps.

Yawn

Such a drama queen

I'll worry about the clubs whose handicap secs are demanding players submit their good social scores first. Once the County deals with those guys, then we'll see if our club had anything to worry about.

I always said WHS, and the submission of many GP rounds and scores going directly to handicap wound cause certain headaches for some Committees. Many others said the same. It made my job as handicap sec massively harder and tedious when it was implemented.

You are now saying it is so basic that using MyEG is an electronic scorecard, Club V1 is not. Evidently not. Both require golfers to enter their 18 scores electronically, perhaps some don't see the subtle difference between the two? Just because you get it, doesn't mean others do.

IF what the club is doing ever causes a problem for a member within the club anyway, I'm sure they can discuss it with the Handicap Committee. And as I know they do the job the best thet can, I'm sure they can resolve the issue and make changes if necessary. So it is pathetic to think someone needs to go running to the County before the Club. I'd only expect that if the club refused to deal with a reported problem

 

[Swango1980]

Are they really struggling or just not bothering.
We (using V1) have absolutely no problems with administering WHS.

Yes, but that is because your Committee is perfect

 

[IanM]

I've put a few gp cards in this year at away venues. I've never done anything with the physical card after the round other than bin it.

Should my club be hauling me in for a telling off?

I'm sure plenty of clubs do absolutely nothing to audit GP cards. If you have a mate who'll sign off your cards anything goes. I know it happens.

 

[rulefan]

Yes, but that is because your Committee is perfect

Not really, just competent and diligent.

 

[Swango1980]

Not really, just competent and diligent.

Congratulations

I do love the patronising attitudes of guys / clubs like yourselves.

I only say this because, if our club were acting in a blatant way against the guidelines (e.g. forcing good social rounds to be submitted), I'd agree entirely with your points.

However, I know that the handicap secretary at our club is a great guy who works damn hard. He'll be up every Saturday and Sunday, and it looks like he goes to club most days midweek. Always see him with his folder, very pleasant to all, and nothing but helpful when I've contacted him about handicaps.

Does the club do everything spot on, by the book. Looks like they probably don't. Is it causing great harm and upset, probably not. I think calling such people incompetent is a disgrace, quite frankly, and probably why many avoid Committees. When such people like yourselves, who sit on your high horse, label them such things.

I also think comments (not by you) about the threat of County getting involved are pathetic. I would like and County Represebtative reading those comments would just laugh. If anyone reported the Club to County, the 1st thing I'd like to think they'd ask is "have you reported and discussed this issue with the Club?". If not, then I'd imagine they'd politely ask the complainer to bog off and bring it up with club first.

As I've said before, I know of many clubs who don't do things as they should, and I only have a very narrow experience of a handful of clubs. We have heard others suggest similar. At my old club, Seniors section (not hcp sec) would get into system and change hcp of anyone they wanted, and at review cut every Senior by an extra shot if they won a comp. When I was hcp sec, for years it was just me as few wanted to be on full Committee, let along join a hcp Committee. We've heard of clubs that run non-qualifiers when they technically shouldn't. The County would be busy if it had to deal.with all these issues if reported

Anyway, rant over. The difference between MyEG and Club V1 was useful knowledge on this forum, and I obviously highlighted that the difference didn't seem to be recognised at my club. What followed wasn't really necessary. Committee bashing when, at least as I always said, WHS was always going to cause more headaches for many Committees, no matter how hard working or competent they are in most of their work

 

[wjemather]

People need to stop trying so hard to dream up bogus reasons why basic rules (of golf and handicapping) aren't being followed, and using playground morality to justify not reporting obvious failures (to anyone). Counties are there to help; they are not a scary monster to be avoided, but they also aren't just going to let clubs ignore their responsibilities.

 

[Swango1980]

People also need to understand that not all clubs will do every single detail perfectly and by the book. Even Committees who are extremely competent in virtually every task may not achieve everything perfectly, for whatever reason.

Counties aren't there to listen to tell tales, when the issue could easily be resolved by talking to Club directly. If anyone wants to go to the effort of getting County involved, it would seem easier to go to effort to go to Club first, as they should.

 

[D-S]

I think you have totally the wrong idea about ‘The County’. They are there to help clubs manage the handicapping and competitions at the club and to make sure they are in line with other local clubs and best practice. They are called County Handicap Advisors not Dragons. Most/all committees want to get things right and don‘t want to be caught out getting it wrong by their members or visitors. Many clubs are in regular contact with their County just to check up that what they are doing is ok and, especially at the moment, that they are prepared for changes, as they are the ones who have to understand them and explain them to their members.
Every Handicap Committee chair or member I have come across is dedicated and trying their best, however they sometimes get things wrong or make things more difficult than they need to be, that’s when the County are there to help and advise.

 

[rulefan]

Congratulations

I do love the patronising attitudes of guys / clubs like yourselves.

I only say this because, if our club were acting in a blatant way against the guidelines (e.g. forcing good social rounds to be submitted), I'd agree entirely with your points.

However, I know that the handicap secretary at our club is a great guy who works damn hard. He'll be up every Saturday and Sunday, and it looks like he goes to club most days midweek. Always see him with his folder, very pleasant to all, and nothing but helpful when I've contacted him about handicaps.

Does the club do everything spot on, by the book. Looks like they probably don't. Is it causing great harm and upset, probably not. I think calling such people incompetent is a disgrace, quite frankly, and probably why many avoid Committees. When such people like yourselves, who sit on your high horse, label them such things.

I also think comments (not by you) about the threat of County getting involved are pathetic. I would like and County Represebtative reading those comments would just laugh. If anyone reported the Club to County, the 1st thing I'd like to think they'd ask is "have you reported and discussed this issue with the Club?". If not, then I'd imagine they'd politely ask the complainer to bog off and bring it up with club first.

As I've said before, I know of many clubs who don't do things as they should, and I only have a very narrow experience of a handful of clubs. We have heard others suggest similar. At my old club, Seniors section (not hcp sec) would get into system and change hcp of anyone they wanted, and at review cut every Senior by an extra shot if they won a comp. When I was hcp sec, for years it was just me as few wanted to be on full Committee, let along join a hcp Committee. We've heard of clubs that run non-qualifiers when they technically shouldn't. The County would be busy if it had to deal.with all these issues if reported

Anyway, rant over. The difference between MyEG and Club V1 was useful knowledge on this forum, and I obviously highlighted that the difference didn't seem to be recognised at my club. What followed wasn't really necessary. Committee bashing when, at least as I always said, WHS was always going to cause more headaches for many Committees, no matter how hard working or competent they are in most of their work

I don't intend to be patronising, just telling it as it is. I didn't say anyone was incompetent.
How many members are there on your Handicap Committee? You mention the Sec, does he have any help? Does this also involve competition management? Is it a joint Ladies' and Men's h'cap c'ee?

Incidentally, I endorse D-S's comments above re the County

 

[Swango1980]

I think you have totally the wrong idea about ‘The County’. They are there to help clubs manage the handicapping and competitions at the club and to make sure they are in line with other local clubs and best practice. They are called County Handicap Advisors not Dragons. Most/all committees want to get things right and don‘t want to be caught out getting it wrong by their members or visitors. Many clubs are in regular contact with their County just to check up that what they are doing is ok and, especially at the moment, that they are prepared for changes, as they are the ones who have to understand them and explain them to their members.
Every Handicap Committee chair or member I have come across is dedicated and trying their best, however they sometimes get things wrong or make things more difficult than they need to be, that’s when the County are there to help and advise.

I very much agree with this. What they don't do is scream incompetence or suggest all member handicaps could be suspended for incompetence. Only few sensationalist in here like to suggest such things.

 

[Swango1980]

I don't intend to be patronising, just telling it as it is. I didn't say anyone was incompetent.
How many members are there on your Handicap Committee? You mention the Sec, does he have any help? Does this also involve competition management? Is it a joint Ladies' and Men's h'cap c'ee?

Incidentally, I endorse D-S's comments above re the County

Personally, I don't know the full set up, just who the Handicap Sec is. We've a strong Senior's and Ladies section as well, I assume there will be a team of people on handicaps.

We actually hold a lot of County events, on and off the golf course, so I wouldn't be surprised if Committee members are well acquainted with those on the County, and indeed England Golf.

In regards to electronic scorecards though, is it truly fair to assume all Committees will be aware of the subtle difference? After all, members enter 18 scores on MyEG, they do the same on Club V1. Both ask for a Marker, but only MyEG gets the marker to physically do something to verify it. I'm not sure if England Golf or Counties sent a clear email to clubs to ensure they know scores on Club V1 also required a physical scorecard. So it is up to Committees to recognise the difference, and with the plethora of other things they do, I'm not sure it is obvious they'll pick up on such details? I usually learn most about rules on golf related issues in here, but most Committee members will never visit a forum.

 

[rulefan]

Personally, I don't know the full set up, just who the Handicap Sec is. We've a strong Senior's and Ladies section as well, I assume there will be a team of people on handicaps.

We actually hold a lot of County events, on and off the golf course, so I wouldn't be surprised if Committee members are well acquainted with those on the County, and indeed England Golf.

In regards to electronic scorecards though, is it truly fair to assume all Committees will be aware of the subtle difference? After all, members enter 18 scores on MyEG, they do the same on Club V1. Both ask for a Marker, but only MyEG gets the marker to physically do something to verify it. I'm not sure if England Golf or Counties sent a clear email to clubs to ensure they know scores on Club V1 also required a physical scorecard. So it is up to Committees to recognise the difference, and with the plethora of other things they do, I'm not sure it is obvious they'll pick up on such details? I usually learn most about rules on golf related issues in here, but most Committee members will never visit a forum.

I don't know the variances between the EG app and the V1 app but our committee has put out a note to all members explaining how and when to use the apps, PSI terminals and cards. As our cards are retained for a short time, I use a card and the PSI. Can't be bothered faffing with a phone on the course.

But I would have thought at least one of your committee would be aware of the different requirements as they are almost certain to be users.

 

[Swango1980]

I don't know the variances between the EG app and the V1 app but our committee has put out a note to all members explaining how and when to use the apps, PSI terminals and cards. As our cards are retained for a short time, I use a card and the PSI. Can't be bothered faffing with a phone on the course.

But I would have thought at least one of your committee would be aware of the different requirements as they are almost certain to be users.

Yes, users of MyEG, Club V1 Terminal and howdidido app. But I can see Committee may not be aware of the difference between each of the 3, unless members raise problems with their use. As I said, they may not notice that one can be treated as an electronic scorecard, and another cannot, when the end result is essentially the same (I.e. members score submitted to handicap record).

I prefer using MyEG by entering scores after each hole. Super quick, don't wait lead on a pencil and if someone else in group is also using it, it will warn you if inconsistent scores entered. Also tallies up Stableford score as you go along. Saves using a physical scorecard as well, keeping environmentalists happy.

 

[rulefan]

I prefer using MyEG by entering scores after each hole. Super quick, don't wait lead on a pencil and if someone else in group is also using it, it will warn you if inconsistent scores entered. Also tallies up Stableford score as you go along. Saves using a physical scorecard as well, keeping environmentalists happy.

How is your score verified?

 

[Swango1980]

How is your score verified?

I put the person I play with as the Attester. They can sign my phone. Regardless of that, when I confirm my score, they get a notification to verify my score. They need to do that before my score appears on my record

 

[DickInShorts]

SG use DotGolf app - as is EG app - for competitions as well as GP scores.
Verification is a joke - you do need to put in the Attesters name and a signature.

The weak point is that it defaults to the player who’s card you have marked - ok for a two ball/GP - but not if you are in a 3 person group competition.

Although a signature is required there is no check that the Attester has verified the score - except if the marker and player have entered different scores for a hole/s.

At least the VMS app SG used to use asked for the attesters phone number!

At the end of the day it all one’s down to trust - especially when you consider that the marker (Attester) has no responsibility for the players score!

 

[rulefan]

I put the person I play with as the Attester. They can sign my phone. Regardless of that, when I confirm my score, they get a notification to verify my score. They need to do that before my score appears on my record

That is all very straightforward. Do you think many of your members have a problem with it, resulting in extra work for the committee?

 

[Swango1980]

That is all very straightforward. Do you think many of your members have a problem with it, resulting in extra work for the committee?

At no point have I ever argued the point that this particular aspect of WHS causes extra work for the Committee?

What I did say that, by extension to using ClubV1 instead of MyEG for GP submission, members/Committees may falsely think they can simply follow the same process. Therefore, no physical card is ever submitted.

 

[wjemather]

What I did say that, by extension to using ClubV1 instead of MyEG for GP submission, members/Committees may falsely think they can simply follow the same process. Therefore, no physical card is ever submitted.

Why would competition/handicap committee members think that? Someone in that position knows that marker certification is required by the rules of golf, and they should be able to recognise when the technology is not providing that functionality. There has also been more than enough comms from Club Systems about this, including impossible-to-miss intrusive popups when logging in to ClubV1.

 

[Swango1980]

Why would competition/handicap committee members think that? Someone in that position knows that marker certification is required by the rules of golf, and they should be able to recognise when the technology is not providing that functionality. There has also been more than enough comms from Club Systems about this, including impossible-to-miss intrusive popups when logging in to ClubV1.

No idea what Club V1 pop ups says. What are the messages?

"Note to all Clubs: Club V1 allows members to enter scores for handicap and select a marker, but this feature is only a gimmick. Do not trust it as a means of certification and please insist members still submit physical scorecards that shows a marker has signed their score"