Club Knockout Divisions?

[Britishshooting]

Do any clubs run separate divisions for the knockouts?

We don't really have enough numbers at one of the clubs to have separate knockouts for each division however one guy who was knocked out first round by myself is bleating that it should be in separate divisions due to the potential skill gap, no club I'm at currently does it that way. In my eyes this is what handicaps are for, resulting in one winner but i'm open minded, am i overlooking any aspects?

I gave him 16 shots, and we finished on 14 as I beat him 6&4, we had a good round, got on well and he appeared to take it in good spirit. Since however he had obviously made his feelings clear to the pro who messaged me this morning about him complaining and wanting separate divs etc.

Any merit in doing things this way or just a sore loser?

 

[patricks148]

sounds like sour grapes

 

[jpjeffery]

Yes, we have Div 1 and Div 2 knockouts, as well as some KOs that aren't split by division. We have 57 members in the men's section.

We rarely get enough entrants to warrant more than four rounds though, but still it seems to work quite well (barring the usual issues).

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I've been a member of 4 clubs and none have had separate divisions for handicaps. You would have to have a huge membership for that to be possible I would think. Even then I think it would be a bit of a shame.

Out of interest, did you play exceptionally well, he play badly etc? Is his h/cap a touch generous and did you expose this? I am searching for why he has had his strop.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

We have 2 handicap knockouts: plus to 18 handicap, and 19+handicaps

We also have a scratch knockout for plus to 12 handicaps

 

[jpjeffery]

sounds like sour grapes

Yeah, a few years ago I played a good round in a pairs comp, with the result that we won on the 16th green.

All very nice and civil, then I hear one of the opposition complained about my handicap being too high. It was about 26 at the time, but apparently I played like an 18! It was the second of two good rounds I played in quick succession (the other worth 41 points for a win...followed by a handicap cut), then I went back to my usual crap ways.

Waddya gonna do?! We're all allowed a good round or two now and again, aren't we?

 

[jpjeffery]

Yes, we have Div 1 and Div 2 knockouts, as well as some KOs that aren't split by division. We have 57 members in the men's section.

We rarely get enough entrants to warrant more than four rounds though, but still it seems to work quite well (barring the usual issues).

One of our summer KOs is a Scratch competition, qualified on gross scores in our April medal, and split in to Div 1 and Div 2 taking seven from each (or eight if the defending champion isn't available).

I don't see why you'd need a huge membership for it to be possible (or how many = huge)

 

[Lord Tyrion]

One of our summer KOs is a Scratch competition, qualified on gross scores in our April medal, and split in to Div 1 and Div 2 taking seven from each (or eight if the defending champion isn't available).

I don't see why you'd need a huge membership for it to be possible (or how many = huge)

Perhaps active is a better description. You can have a small but active membership and so splitting is fine. A big membership but few who enter knockouts would be no good. I mentioned a need for a big membership, I should have used a better term.

 

[Orikoru]

Do any clubs run separate divisions for the knockouts?

We don't really have enough numbers at one of the clubs to have separate knockouts for each division however one guy who was knocked out first round by myself is bleating that it should be in separate divisions due to the potential skill gap, no club I'm at currently does it that way. In my eyes this is what handicaps are for, resulting in one winner but i'm open minded, am i overlooking any aspects?

I gave him 16 shots, and we finished on 14 as I beat him 6&4, we had a good round, got on well and he appeared to take it in good spirit. Since however he had obviously made his feelings clear to the pro who messaged me this morning about him complaining and wanting separate divs etc.

Any merit in doing things this way or just a sore loser?

Exactly that I'd have said. If he was getting 16 shots and still lost I think fair's fair.

Our singles knockout doesn't have divisions, but it is capped at 18 h'cap, so if you're any higher than that, tough. The pairs is capped at 24 so I've gone in that one this year.

 

[Britishshooting]

I've been a member of 4 clubs and none have had separate divisions for handicaps. You would have to have a huge membership for that to be possible I would think. Even then I think it would be a bit of a shame.

Out of interest, did you play exceptionally well, he play badly etc? Is his h/cap a touch generous and did you expose this? I am searching for why he has had his strop.

I played solid, not out of my skin but my whole game showed up on the day, think he had one of those days where it just wasn't happening otherwise it would have been a finish closer to 18. I'm always more 'fearful' when I play those around the 18-20 bracket as I've seen many string together plenty of pars, all of which you need to birdie just to halve.

 

[Grant85]

Do any clubs run separate divisions for the knockouts?

We don't really have enough numbers at one of the clubs to have separate knockouts for each division however one guy who was knocked out first round by myself is bleating that it should be in separate divisions due to the potential skill gap, no club I'm at currently does it that way. In my eyes this is what handicaps are for, resulting in one winner but i'm open minded, am i overlooking any aspects?

I gave him 16 shots, and we finished on 14 as I beat him 6&4, we had a good round, got on well and he appeared to take it in good spirit. Since however he had obviously made his feelings clear to the pro who messaged me this morning about him complaining and wanting separate divs etc.

Any merit in doing things this way or just a sore loser?

I'd guess that very few clubs do this. Clear problem with someone's handicap changing throughout the season. Lets say you do 1-10, 11 - 18 and 19+

So someone starts at 19 and within a few weeks is down 4 or 5 shots. Obviously he has to then stay in the same KO competition, but it is no longer 19+ handicaps playing.

I'd say let the handicaps do their jobs. If guys are playing regularly and posting scores then the handicaps should be accurate and they should have a chance of beating anyone.

If you are giving someone 16 shots then they must be a fairly erratic / inconsistent golfer.

The pro should have sent a polite e-mail back explaining the handicap system and offering him a lesson if he was so beat up about getting beat 6&4.

 

[Macster]

Yes we have Knockouts for Div 1 to 11, Div 2 to 18, and Div 3 above that.
Plus a Main Club Matchplay, and a few others too, incl a Scratch K/O for anyone who fancies the challenge.

I think if a Club has enough Members, its a fairer way, as in reality, if a High Handical happens to have a 'good day' against a single fig man, it can be a bit of a mis-match.
I gues sit could happen the other way too, but perhaps less likely.

 

[2blue]

We have Div's of up to 15 & 15 & above as well as a fully open Club KO.
Me & many others don't bother entering as there are just so many new members with new H/caps that its just too frustrating... not pleasant golf for either player.
As well as not being easy to organise, for some reason or other.

 

[User20204]

I wonder if he'd have won would he still be bleating about different divisions. Another example of why I don't play match play any more.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

None of our board comp knockouts are div sorted.
Gotta love the irony of the higher hcp complaining about number of shots.
He sounds to me like a glory hunter, and one happy to keep his hcp deliberately high.

 

[Dannyc]

We have 4 divisions for handicaps that any medal or stableford comps are split into divisional top 3 for prizes with overall winner but he must be off 18 or below
Club cup is matchplay knockout max 18 and club bowl same for 19 and above
Also scratch knockout for anyone upto 12 can enter

 

[jim8flog]

We currently have two knockouts comps, one 14-28 (historic handicap limit) and above and the other for 13 and under.

However given the number of entrants in each comps we are considering a change to

one comp is a scratch knockout and the other is a handicap knockout.

We also run a third comp which is stableford (stroke play rules) match (winner with the highest number of points wins the round) open to all handicaps and this is the one comp that gets a lot of support.

 

[Grant85]

We have 4 divisions for handicaps that any medal or stableford comps are split into divisional top 3 for prizes with overall winner but he must be off 18 or below
Club cup is matchplay knockout max 18 and club bowl same for 19 and above
Also scratch knockout for anyone upto 12 can enter

Question about this (and any other clubs with handicap limits). Are higher handicappers allowed to enter but only given max 18 shots in any match?

 

[Carpfather1]

My current club has a division 1 and 2 I think it’s a load of rubbish and all should be mixed up as already said what’s the point of the handicap system otherwise .
Also my previous golf club will not allow any entrant in any comp to have more than a 18handicap what ever the comp or knock out is so as a example.
A friend of mine who was off a 24 handicap at the time stopped entering comps because he would have to play off a 18 handicap and felt he had no chance of getting anywhere near any comp playing off 18 .

 

[2blue]

My current club has a division 1 and 2 I think it’s a load of rubbish and all should be mixed up as already said what’s the point of the handicap system otherwise .
Also my previous golf club will not allow any entrant in any comp to have my than a 18handicap what ever the comp or knock out is so as a example.
A friend of mine who was off a 24 handicap at the time stopped entering comps because he would have to play off a 18 handicap and felt he had no chance of getting anywhere near any comp playing off 18 .

Whilst I don't think it's a good idea to 'cap' the H/cap of entrants it is a serious problem establishing starting H/caps for new players or those returning to the game & submitting 3 cards. However Div's does not really solve this...…. even, as we do, insisting on players having played in 5 Q Comps during the last 12 months does not guarantee all participants having a H/cap that truly reflexes their ability...… an insoluble problem I'm afraid.