Clarification Please

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Deleted member 16999

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Just need to be put right as our 4 Ball got ourselves confused while playing yesterday.
One of the guys drove his ball off the tee into a gorse bush on the side of the fairway, all 4 of us clearly saw the ball enter the bush, he then played a provisional and as normal found the fairway.
We moved forward and tried to find his first ball but the bush is too thick and we couldn't find it.
What are the options available to him?
 
Thanks Guys.
One of the guys thought he had the option of a drop keeping the bush between him and the hole as we all saw the ball enter the bushes, I thought he was confusing that with a ball entering water.
The guy who's ball it was played the provisional anyway, but the talk was whether he could've saved a shot.
 
pauldj42 said:
Thanks Guys.
One of the guys thought he had the option of a drop keeping the bush between him and the hole as we all saw the ball enter the bushes, I thought he was confusing that with a ball entering water.
The guy who's ball it was played the provisional anyway, but the talk was whether he could've saved a shot.
Click to expand...

That would only apply if the ball was found and identified - then declared unplayable! Simply knowing where it was (or virtually certain) is not enough in this case!

Had the 'gorse bush' been water, then that would have indeed been an option. And known or virtually certain WOULD apply in that case - though playing a provisional would have meant that there was, at least initial, doubt on the part of the player, so potentially 3-off-the-tee anyway! There would have needed to be no other possibility than it being in the water in order to discard the provisional and apply the KVC aspect of the Water Hazard rule.
 
Foxholer said:
That would only apply if the ball was found and identified - then declared unplayable! Simply knowing where it was (or virtually certain) is not enough in this case!

Had the 'gorse bush' been water, then that would have indeed been an option. And known or virtually certain WOULD apply in that case - though playing a provisional would have meant that there was, at least initial, doubt on the part of the player, so potentially 3-off-the-tee anyway! There would have needed to be no other possibility than it being in the water in order to discard the provisional and apply the KVC aspect of the Water Hazard rule.
Click to expand...
Cheers, Like I replied to Bob, the confusion arose when he was adamant about it being an option, the gorse bush is quite large and thick and no chance of getting near the middle. Probably a mixture of something done in a bounce game stepping over the line.
 
pauldj42 said:
Cheers, Like I replied to Bob, the confusion arose when he was adamant about it being an option, the gorse bush is quite large and thick and no chance of getting near the middle. Probably a mixture of something done in a bounce game stepping over the line.
Click to expand...

This is one of those cases where carrying a Rule Book and requesting he show where that's in the Rules is worthwhile - as it's pretty simple to look up, unlike some cases that can be awkward to find!

Or to put a Beer or equivalent on whether he is right or not and find out later. That way the 'lesson' of the myth is likely to be remembered next time! And the 'adamant' guy might be slightly less so next time too! :whistle: I'm a couple of gallons up for such cases, though admit to being wrong once or twice (but certainly know the correct rulings now!)! :whistle:

A claim (for Matchplay) or playing 2 balls (for Strokeplay), with the proper ruling being and result of hole/score being resolved later, for such instances can help, but they have their own Rules, which need to be followed!
 
Isn't there something in the rules about only having to have vc without needing to find the ball in certain abnormal ground conditions?

Possibly where the confusion stems from?
 
bobmac said:
If they are not new to golf there's no excuse for not knowing the ruling in this case.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but as previously put, over confident people can put doubt into your mind and if the game had of been important I would've suggested playing 2 balls rather than delay the groups behind us while we discussed it.
 
pauldj42 said:
Thanks Guys.
One of the guys thought he had the option of a drop keeping the bush between him and the hole as we all saw the ball enter the bushes, I thought he was confusing that with a ball entering water.
The guy who's ball it was played the provisional anyway, but the talk was whether he could've saved a shot.
Click to expand...

If he didn't like his provisional he could have played another ball from the tee under rule 28 but that would be his 5th stroke.
That ball relates to his provisional not the original.
 
rulefan said:
If he didn't like his provisional he could have played another ball from the tee under rule 28 but that would be his 5th stroke.
That ball relates to his provisional not the original.
Click to expand...
Cheers, more knowledge added to the bank
 
Region3 said:
Isn't there something in the rules about only having to have vc without needing to find the ball in certain abnormal ground conditions?

Possibly where the confusion stems from?
Click to expand...

Yeah if you lose it in Abnornmal ground/GUR then you can take a free drop using the point wich it last crossed in to the area
 
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