Catholic Church

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Ethan said:
Indeed. I prefer to attack the churches (all of them , equal opportunity) on the simple basis that in a rational world governed by laws of nature and science, the idea of religion and one or more deities controlling it all is utterly absurd and demonstrably false.

I may as well believe in leprechauns at the bottom of the garden, and before you say anything beware, one of them doesn't take criticism too well.
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I agree with Ethan.

I don't believe in any religion, so accepting the word of a few "church leaders" , especially where, say, contraception or gay marriage etc etc is concerned is clearly so detrimentally harmful to so many people who can't see through religion as to what it really is going on and that they are just being controlled by people peddling frightening lies about what will happen if you don't do what you're told. They wouldn't accept it if Ed Milliband was doing the telling but accept it when told by some guy wearing a frock!

Thank God I'm atheist !
 
Ched Evans , Maddy McCann and Religion (if im correct) .. by crikey Phil your on a run of sensitive subjects ..



Im a Catholic but ya know what my take is on it in reality

Life your life in a good and honest manner , treat other people they way you'd like to be treated yourself, dont judge others coz it may someday turn out you were wrong and not them so sccept them for who they are ,
it wont solve all the problems but you should live a decent and happy life
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I hope that those with no religious faith can understand that for those who do have faith, such decisions and considerations can be difficult. It is very easy for the former to condemn what can appear anachronistic positions on matters such as homosexuality and gay marriage, but without having a religious faith, that condemnation is made without a full understanding of why the matters are difficult.
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I appreciate you have made a sincere and heartfelt post. And, since the very notion of religious faith is unfathomable to me it is true that I am unable to imagine why it's difficult for religious people to treat people fairly, to love their neighbour etc. My rudimentary understanding of christianity suggests that should be the very basis of the religion?

They choose to have a religious faith, pick and choose which aspects of that faith they will respect and adhere to. I don't understand why homosexuality which rates only a few passing mentions (if that) in some versions of the bible causes so much vexation within the catholic church, and others, if it is not down to old-fashioned bigotry. In my opinion, the religion is only an excuse (as it has been an excuse for so many ills through the years).

So please, don't just dismiss those of us without a religious faith (or delusion to put it another way) by claiming we can't understand. If there is a genuine, rational, reason for this discrimination please try and explain it.
 
Kind of serious question but why can't religious texts be updated? Seems a bit strange top me that whole religions are based on texts that were written many centuries ago where attitudes to many things have changed dramatically. Just get the Pope, A few archbishops and other religious leaders, give them Word with 'track changes' enabled and boom, problem solved.;)
 
Hacker Khan said:
Kind of serious question but why can't religious texts be updated? Seems a bit strange top me that whole religions are based on texts that were written many centuries ago where attitudes to many things have changed dramatically. Just get the Pope, A few archbishops and other religious leaders, give them Word with 'track changes' enabled and boom, problem solved.;)
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A very valid question that and something IMO that needs to be attended to, alot of what would be described now as "problems" (for want of a better word)for religions are because they werent there or if they were there they werent spoken of whenn texts or scripture were set down ..

The world had moved on so much but some religions (my own included) seem to just stay ostrich like and hope it goes away , well it aint going away as people are even more so now realising life is for living not enduring ..


Its way too vast to be simply sorted , but ur question is a very good one indeed
 
bladeplayer said:
Ched Evans , Maddy McCann and Religion (if im correct) .. by crikey Phil your on a run of sensitive subjects ..



Im a Catholic but ya know what my take is on it in reality

Life your life in a good and honest manner , treat other people they way you'd like to be treated yourself, dont judge others coz it may someday turn out you were wrong and not them so sccept them for who they are ,
it wont solve all the problems but you should live a decent and happy life
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Good post and great attitude to life - I hope I also follow that :thup:

Religion picks and chooses what suits them and imo is fantasy and at times hypocritical but understand people need to have faith

But not faith in a mythical person from a fiction novel in all its forms ( obviously that's just my opinion )
 
FairwayDodger said:
So please, don't just dismiss those of us without a religious faith (or delusion to put it another way) by claiming we can't understand. If there is a genuine, rational, reason for this discrimination please try and explain it.
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I tried to post carefully so that I avoided being dismissive - I failed :(

I tried stating that I didn't think you can have a full understanding about why those with a religious faith will find such matters difficult unless you yourself have such faith. I am not saying that those without a faith cannot understand the issue and come to their own conclusions.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I tried to post carefully so that I avoided being dismissive - I failed :(

I tried stating that I didn't think you can have a full understanding about why those with a religious faith will find such matters difficult unless you yourself have such faith. I am not saying that those without a faith cannot understand the issue and come to their own conclusions.
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I agree that it is difficult to understand the thinking processes of people who accept a belief system which involves unquestioning acceptance of the utterly improbable based on no evidence whatesoever. The better question should be why we should expect them to accept any rational argument at all.

Is that better?
 
FairwayDodger said:
I don't understand why homosexuality which rates only a few passing mentions (if that) in some versions of the bible causes so much vexation within the catholic church, and others, if it is not down to old-fashioned bigotry. In my opinion, the religion is only an excuse (as it has been an excuse for so many ills through the years).
Click to expand...

Homosexuality isn't natural, a male and a female are MADE to be together that is why it's frowned upon. Seeing as it's now legal in this country we have to accept it as the norm regardless of whether it's right or wrong to do so. If they made it legal to have 'relations' with people 10yrs old would you be up in arms and disgusted? (bad example as age/consent become an issue but the reference was about the physical act but the point remains the same).

FWIW My personal stance isn't anything to do with the paragraph I wrote above as I couldn't care less what consenting adults get up to.
 
JustOne said:
Homosexuality isn't natural.
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I disagree. Evolution had led to a complex bio-machines (us) which don't all have the same behaviours, but we are all natural.

Same-Sex attraction in the animal kingdom is widely reported and as far as I know broadly accepted. I'm not a professional in this area so stand to be corrected by someone who knows this field better than I.
 
IanG said:
I disagree. Evolution had led to a complex bio-machines (us) which don't all have the same behaviours, but we are all natural.

Same-Sex attraction in the animal kingdom is widely reported and as far as I know broadly accepted. I'm not a professional in this area so stand to be corrected by someone who knows this field better than I.
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It's a fair enough opinion, we are all different. If it were natural we'd all be doing it... and the human race would cease to exist. I'm not saying that some people aren't 'naturally' attracted to the similar sex (for one reason or another). It's legal to have 'relations' with animals in Sweden - does that mean it's right and those people do it 'naturally'?
 
JustOne said:
Homosexuality isn't natural, a male and a female are MADE to be together that is why it's frowned upon. Seeing as it's now legal in this country we have to accept it as the norm regardless of whether it's right or wrong to do so. If they made it legal to have 'relations' with people 10yrs old would you be up in arms and disgusted? (bad example as age/consent become an issue but the reference was about the physical act but the point remains the same).

FWIW My personal stance isn't anything to do with the paragraph I wrote above as I couldn't care less what consenting adults get up to.
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Im totaly in agreement with the bit in red..

I dont understand where it says the bit in blue , who said its not natural or where is it definitively proven ? did someone say years ago it shouldn't be and everyone followed along ,

kinda like alot of religions if thats the case ...
 
JustOne said:
If it were natural we'd all be doing it... and the human race would cease to exist.
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We don't have to ALL do (or want to do) the same things in order for them to be natural. We are incredible complicated organisms and surely there is room for more than one set of behaviours & desires in humanity.

An ordered society requires that we set some limits on behaviours which are very damaging to others or the society more generally, e.g we don't allow a person with a proclivity to kill or steal to continue unsanctioned. Whether 'relations' with animals falls one side or other of the line we choose is a matter for the politicians.

In this area, labels and the words we use are important. Describing homosexuality as not natural is insulting and denigrates a section of our society which has already put up with generations of prejudice and abuse.
 
Ethan said:
Indeed. I prefer to attack the churches (all of them , equal opportunity) on the simple basis that in a rational world governed by laws of nature and science, the idea of religion and one or more deities controlling it all is utterly absurd and demonstrably false.

I may as well believe in leprechauns at the bottom of the garden, and before you say anything beware, one of them doesn't take criticism too well.

COI: Reared Catholic, now born-again atheist.
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So you can prove to me that there is no God?
 
chrisd said:
I agree with Ethan.

I don't believe in any religion, so accepting the word of a few "church leaders" , especially where, say, contraception or gay marriage etc etc is concerned is clearly so detrimentally harmful to so many people who can't see through religion as to what it really is going on and that they are just being controlled by people peddling frightening lies about what will happen if you don't do what you're told. They wouldn't accept it if Ed Milliband was doing the telling but accept it when told by some guy wearing a frock!

Thank God I'm atheist !
Click to expand...

So who is doing this?
 
Ethan said:
I agree that it is difficult to understand the thinking processes of people who accept a belief system which involves unquestioning acceptance of the utterly improbable based on no evidence whatesoever. The better question should be why we should expect them to accept any rational argument at all.

Is that better?
Click to expand...

Unquestioning - that you know? And there is much we don't understand about which we hypothesise and formulate (mathematical) descriptions of that create the impression of understanding - at least an understanding that is sufficient to meet our own needs.
 
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