Catholic Church

[bladeplayer]

I can kind of see that with Catholics, CoE, Protestants and to a degree the Jewish faith within the UK at least but as we get more and more from a Sikh and Muslim persuasion over here will there come a time when they will be the main faiths in the UK (if we aren't there already).

i think the sikh & muslims will lose some aswel (maybe not the same extent) Martin as the generations become more europeanised.. could be wrong tho , ive no real experience of either

 

[HomerJSimpson]

i think the sikh & muslims will lose some aswel (maybe not the same extent) well Martin as the generations become more eoropeanised.. could be wrong tho , ive no real experience of either

You may be right. I'm an atheist and so have no affinity to any religion but have happy for those that have their faith. As Dave Allen use to say.. "may your god go with you"

 

[Hacker Khan]

We don't have to ALL do (or want to do) the same things in order for them to be natural. We are incredible complicated organisms and surely there is room for more than one set of behaviours & desires in humanity.

An ordered society requires that we set some limits on behaviours which are very damaging to others or the society more generally, e.g we don't allow a person with a proclivity to kill or steal to continue unsanctioned. Whether 'relations' with animals falls one side or other of the line we choose is a matter for the politicians.

In this area, labels and the words we use are important. Describing homosexuality as not natural is insulting and denigrates a section of our society which has already put up with generations of prejudice and abuse.

Good post sir.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don't really get the religion should move with the times argument.

In the case of followers of the big fella, the big man upstairs handed down the ten commandments and said something along the lines of 'see here now, these are the rules by which you should live your life'. Simple instructions.

Now, If he wants to alter/amend or in any way update his rules then I'm sure he'll appear with a new tablet (maybe a nexus?) with his update. But so far he hasn't, so until then the big dudes followers should be living their lives guided by his original commandments and not just the bits they fancy adhering to, or extra bits that somebody in a dress and pointy hat tells them. That, in my book, means they aren't proper followers of the big guy upstairs.

Somebody in a dress and pointy hat? You may have one branch of Christianity in mind but it sure as heck isn't mine. Bit of a coarse and flippant generalisation there. I do often wonder if folk know anything at all about churches other than the CoE and the Catholic Church

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Somebody in a dress and pointy hat? You may have one branch of Christianity in mind but it sure as heck isn't mine. Bit of a coarse and flippant generalisation there. I do often wonder if folk know anything at all about churches other than the CoE and the Catholic Church

And your church/religion is ? If its ok to ask ?

 

[Fyldewhite]

Read through this with interest. What do they say about religion and politics??? Here's my contribution!

Existence of God:
I have every respect for all who believe and don't want to get into the proof argument as it's pointless. However, I do object to the notion that "Christian values" or even "British values" we seem to be hearing so much about at present are either valid or relevant. The remarkable thing about humanity is the similarity across the globe of the ordinary person. Society works because we have humanity in common, not because of the different versions of the "rule book". We all know it's wrong to kill people but it still goes on every day. I just somehow think that if we all believed there was no "heaven", "afterlife" or "re-incarnation" then we'd have a bit more respect for the short life we all have in this world.

Homosexuality:
To me, it isn't and never will be "normal" (whatever that means). It's a valid choice if that's what you want and anyone choosing that path should be free to do so. I do believe though to teach children that it's just as natural as a conventional m/f relationship is just crazy. It isn't......period. That's not saying a m/m or f/f relationship is wrong, or anything to be ashamed of but will always be on the fringes of human society. There is no "gay gene", there can't be if you actually think about it. Very few are "born this way". It's a lifestyle choice which is fine by me if that's what floats your boat.

The Catholic Church:
No different to any other religious body. All about power and the control of people. Suppose that's where the overlap with politics comes in.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Read through this with interest. What do they say about religion and politics??? Here's my contribution!

Existence of God:
I have every respect for all who believe and don't want to get into the proof argument as it's pointless. However, I do object to the notion that "Christian values" or even "British values" we seem to be hearing so much about at present are either valid or relevant. The remarkable thing about humanity is the similarity across the globe of the ordinary person. Society works because we have humanity in common, not because of the different versions of the "rule book". We all know it's wrong to kill people but it still goes on every day. I just somehow think that if we all believed there was no "heaven", "afterlife" or "re-incarnation" then we'd have a bit more respect for the short life we all have in this world.

Homosexuality:
To me, it isn't and never will be "normal" (whatever that means). It's a valid choice if that's what you want and anyone choosing that path should be free to do so. I do believe though to teach children that it's just as natural as a conventional m/f relationship is just crazy. It isn't......period. That's not saying a m/m or f/f relationship is wrong, or anything to be ashamed of but will always be on the fringes of human society. There is no "gay gene", there can't be if you actually think about it. Very few are "born this way". It's a lifestyle choice which is fine by me if that's what floats your boat.

The Catholic Church:
No different to any other religious body. All about power and the control of people. Suppose that's where the overlap with politics comes in.

Very good post - :thup:

 

[Liverbirdie]

That says something about you, not about the doctrine of faith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_in_Christianity

I don't know what that has to do with your statement:-

"Nice trick because faith means belief without proof and it stops the followers from questioning the basis for their religion".

I believe in God, I have questioned my faith many times, and I believe that many believers have done the same. I don't see how the Wikipedia entry proves against that. Enlighten me, bring me out of darkness, into the light. :thup:

 

[Fish]

Read through this with interest. What do they say about religion and politics??? Here's my contribution!

Existence of God:
I have every respect for all who believe and don't want to get into the proof argument as it's pointless. However, I do object to the notion that "Christian values" or even "British values" we seem to be hearing so much about at present are either valid or relevant. The remarkable thing about humanity is the similarity across the globe of the ordinary person. Society works because we have humanity in common, not because of the different versions of the "rule book". We all know it's wrong to kill people but it still goes on every day. I just somehow think that if we all believed there was no "heaven", "afterlife" or "re-incarnation" then we'd have a bit more respect for the short life we all have in this world.

Homosexuality:
To me, it isn't and never will be "normal" (whatever that means). It's a valid choice if that's what you want and anyone choosing that path should be free to do so. I do believe though to teach children that it's just as natural as a conventional m/f relationship is just crazy. It isn't......period. That's not saying a m/m or f/f relationship is wrong, or anything to be ashamed of but will always be on the fringes of human society. There is no "gay gene", there can't be if you actually think about it. Very few are "born this way". It's a lifestyle choice which is fine by me if that's what floats your boat.

The Catholic Church:
No different to any other religious body. All about power and the control of people. Suppose that's where the overlap with politics comes in.

This will do for me :thup:

 

[Papas1982]

Not gonna get into the religieous debate. But i'm astounded how many people seem to think that homosexuality is unnatural and some sort of choice. It may be unappealing to you. But it is simply a matter of someone being attracted to someone!

I wonder how many of us have watched a bit of girl on girl in our youth and thought "that's so unnatural, turn it off"!

 

[User20205]

Not gonna get into the religieous debate. But i'm astounded how many people seem to think that homosexuality is unnatural and some sort of choice. It may be unappealing to you. But it is simply a matter of someone being attracted to someone!

I wonder how many of us have watched a bit of girl on girl in our youth and thought "that's so unnatural, turn it off"!

Apart for the slightly crass final point I agree with this 100%. I do find some of the attitudes on this forum unenlightened at best, offensive at worst. To say homosexuality is not normal opens up the way for persecution and hatred.

You can fall back on a religious text, or even innate bigotry, but to imply that it's different, and some how not as worthy a a heterosexual relationship is Neanderthal. To define sexuality by a sex act puts you in the category of a mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, helmet wearing retard.

(Mod Edit)

As for the church, I don't care, but any organisation that allows bigotry and persecution whilst pretending it holds the answer to societies ills is riddled with hypocrisy. Any intelligent person that falls into line with their doctorine needs to wake up. IMO

 

[Hacker Khan]

Not gonna get into the religieous debate. But i'm astounded how many people seem to think that homosexuality is unnatural and some sort of choice. It may be unappealing to you. But it is simply a matter of someone being attracted to someone!

I wonder how many of us have watched a bit of girl on girl in our youth and thought "that's so unnatural, turn it off"!

Well said. You could argue that getting into a metal box with 4 round bits of rubber on it which transports us at speeds much faster than a human can achieve with their body isn't 'natural'. But plenty of us do that.

And less of the 'in our youth'.....

 

[FairwayDodger]

Well, how glad am I that I wasn't online while all this nonsense was getting trotted out.

JustOne - your posts on homosexuality are both ill-informed and utterly offensive.

Mods (Phil) - Why is it not OK to criticise the Sun but conflating homosexuality with child abuse goes unchallenged? Your priorities are way off.

Anyone who thinks homosexuality isn't natural just needs to look at the prejudice, discrimination and abuse we have faced (and still do although things are improving) and ask why anyone would CHOOSE to go through that.

Not getting into a debate on this. Taking a break from the scumbags in here.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And your church/religion is ? If its ok to ask ?

It is - Church of Scotland and United Reformed Church (both Protestant - the URC and CoS are very close theologically and liturgically)

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Im going to close the thread,

This was a wide ranging discussion that always had the potential to kick off, and as always its a fine line between free speech and censorship. and that is why a close eye was kept on it.

Certain posters put forward a particular point of view and others including me countered it, at no time were the arguments directed at any individuals, The forum rules say " criticize ideas not individuals", that is what happened.Read my post no 79

At no time did anybody report a post to the Mod team, that indicates that the forum is happy with the content. The basic rule is that if you think a post/thread is going in the wrong direction, then please report it.

Not reporting it and then later having a go at the mods is not right.

The alternative is that we ban discussion on all topics that might kick off, so no politics, football, religion, Ched Evans, Madeline McCann etc etc so we are left with PC problems or plumbing questions in OOB