Blair - He's got alot to answer for......

[Jensen]

Tony Blair has got a hell of a lot to answer for and has blood on his hands.
His decision and forceful opinion to take us to war firstly in Iraq has cost this country an absolute fortune. Both in terms of innocent and brave lives but also as financial.
There were no weapons of mass destruction supposedly held by Saddam Hussein, the reason to invade Iraq. Al Qaeda didn't exist in Iraq, another reason to invade after 9/11. So the UK had no reason to invade into what became an illegal war. If it was to get rid of a dictator then what of other countries ie North Korea, various countries in Africa - another lie.
Then we move to Afghanistan which we were dragged into following Iraq where a war will NEVER be won. The Soviets (Red Army) were there for years and with ALL their military might, they could not defeat what was the mujaheddin, now Al Qaeda.
The West tries to make this a diplomatic country when it's ruled by various tribes, the culture is completely different.
We should have stayed out of both countries. It has nothing to do with us.
Next immigration - He opened up the doors for everybody to come into this Country. Claim asylum and you're free to come in.

I support and admire our forces, but Blair has so much blood on his hands and questions to answer.
His lasting legacy has cost this Country an absolute fortune.....

 

[Sweep]

Personally, I will never understand how he was elected 3 times, but I guess that is democracy.
The first Prime Minister to be re elected after lying to Parliament and the country and the BIGGEST joke of all was when he was made envoy to the Middle East. After George W Bush, he has to be the most hated man in the world in that region. You couldn't make it up.
He will, however, go down as one of the greatest politicians of all time with the way he made "New" Labour electable again and his masterful handling of spin. However, people don't respect politics. They respect those who do good for their country and the world and to have George W Bush and Blair in power at the same time was an absolute disaster for us all and we will be dealing with the aftermath for generations to come.

 

[Foxholer]

Tony Blair has got a hell of a lot to answer for and has blood on his hands.
His decision and forceful opinion to take us to war firstly in Iraq has cost this country an absolute fortune. Both in terms of innocent and brave lives but also as financial.
There were no weapons of mass destruction supposedly held by Saddam Hussein, the reason to invade Iraq. Al Qaeda didn't exist in Iraq, another reason to invade after 9/11. So the UK had no reason to invade into what became an illegal war. If it was to get rid of a dictator then what of other countries ie North Korea, various countries in Africa - another lie.
Then we move to Afghanistan which we were dragged into following Iraq where a war will NEVER be won. The Soviets (Red Army) were there for years and with ALL their military might, they could not defeat what was the mujaheddin, now Al Qaeda.
The West tries to make this a diplomatic country when it's ruled by various tribes, the culture is completely different.
We should have stayed out of both countries. It has nothing to do with us.
Next immigration - He opened up the doors for everybody to come into this Country. Claim asylum and you're free to come in.

I support and admire our forces, but Blair has so much blood on his hands and questions to answer.
His lasting legacy has cost this Country an absolute fortune.....

While there's a lot I agree with, there's also a lot I believe you have got wrong!

And it seems, to me, very much as if you've been, willingly, indoctrinated by certain newspapers!

And having blood on hands is, unfortunately, one of the frightening responsibilities that come with the job of PM!

 

[Crazyface]

I actually think that he was fed incorrect info by Bush admin and so just backed up the Yanks, just when will we get a Prime Minister as strong as Hugh Grant. He was also in the right place at the right time. The Tories were, at the time, a complacent bunch of thieves with their noses well and truely in the trough and kept getting in with wild promises (lies like what the Tories used to say).
The party that gets in will be the ones who can lies convincingly. This will be the Tories this time. UKIP will make big gains though.

 

[Val]

Tony Blair as PM only really made one fatal mistake and that was backing the US in their fight with Saddam 2nd time around, he was ill advised by many people BUT other than that he spoke sense and was a very credible politician IMO, unfortunately his legacy will always be tarnished by the war in Iraq.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Would take him over Cameron every day of the week

 

[Foxholer]

Tony Blair as PM only really made one fatal mistake and that was backing the US in their fight with Saddam 2nd time around, he was ill advised by many people BUT other than that he spoke sense and was a very credible politician IMO, unfortunately his legacy will always be tarnished by the war in Iraq.

I don't believe backing US was the 'fatal' mistake. But picking to justify it on the basis of WMDs was the wrong strategy imo.

His real 'fatal mistake', imo, was stepping down and letting Brown take over. That act was death of Labour's period in power!

His regime's persecution of Dr David Kelly - who was proven to be correct! - to suicide was certainly unforgivable, and to me is 'direct blood on Blair's/Campbell's hands'

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In my view there is a lot of rubbish spouted about Blair on Iraq. I used to work on defence market assessment and as part of that I was provided with a lot of defence intelligence - not the highly secret stuff I'd add. But my job was to try and make sense of what was know as fact and try to determine with all the intelligence I could be provided with what countries and their military might be doing (militarily and geo-politically). And to help in that I got briefings from MoD as well as from my own company's representatives 'on the ground'. I can easily see how Blair could be presented with a dossier of information that could support the decisions that Bush and he made - and as I have also worked on strategic missile defence systems I also understand the sort of capabilities of WMD that could support the argument and the associated risks they pose.

Bottom line is that I am probably one of the small percentage who do not put all the blame for an 'illegal' war on Blair's plate but have some understanding of why he might have made the decision he made.

 

[woody69]

Blair was a great Prime Minister who made a monumental screw up due to poor intelligence and now his entire legacy is tainted.

We were absolutely right going into Afghanistan. Speak to people there and their lives are exponentially better than they were when ruled by the Taliban (don't confuse them with the mythical Al Qaeda). And why I think the reasons for going to war in Iraq were wrong, the world is a better place without Saddam in it.

And what a random throwaway rant about immigration and asylum. Personally I'm proud that people feel they can turn to the UK because they live in fear of persecution and death in their own countries and come here to claim asylum.

Did someone spit in your tea last night or something?

 

[scottbrown]

Would take him over Cameron every day of the week

Really? I am shocked anyone ( other than hard line labour supporters) believe that

 

[Jensen]

While there's a lot I agree with, there's also a lot I believe you have got wrong!

And it seems, to me, very much as if you've been, willingly, indoctrinated by certain newspapers!

And having blood on hands is, unfortunately, one of the frightening responsibilities that come with the job of PM!

I don't read the Daily Mail or Daily Express

Blair was a great Prime Minister who made a monumental screw up due to poor intelligence and now his entire legacy is tainted.

We were absolutely right going into Afghanistan. Speak to people there and their lives are exponentially better than they were when ruled by the Taliban (don't confuse them with the mythical Al Qaeda). And why I think the reasons for going to war in Iraq were wrong, the world is a better place without Saddam in it.

And what a random throwaway rant about immigration and asylum. Personally I'm proud that people feel they can turn to the UK because they live in fear of persecution and death in their own countries and come here to claim asylum.

Did someone spit in your tea last night or something?

Absolutely right to go into Afghanistan, are you mad?. More people have been killed in Afghanistan than Iraq. It's a place ruled by tribes and will not be influenced by democracy. As a former Soviet (Red Army) commander said, his advice to the West is "Get out of there as quickly as possible". As I said if the Soviets couldn't conquer Afghanistan in the 80's with all the might that they had then nobody will.

As for the world a better place without Saddam, he certainly wouldn't have let Al Qaeda or IS get a foothold in the first place !

Oh and nobody spat in my tea last night, I made a nice omelette :thup:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Saddam was worse than both IS and Al Qaeda and the world and Iraq is a better place without him

Afghan is now a better prosperous country than before - schools are thriving , hospitals are active , farms are alive and well and people earn their own living - there is a long way to go to just yet but the NATO forces have done a lot of good in Afghan - the tribes will need to be involved in new structure

The idea isn't to "conquer" Afghan like the Soviets tried

 

[Jensen]

Saddam was worse than both IS and Al Qaeda and the world and Iraq is a better place without him

That MUST be that famous scouse humour they talk about.......

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That MUST be that famous scouse humour they talk about.......

Have you visited Iraq recently ?

Have you ever seen mass graves full of thousands of Kurds slaughtered by their leader

The place isnt perfect and has a long way to go but it's better with Saddam

 

[Foxholer]

While it's a purely intellectual exercise whether Saddam was a greater threat than IS, the Taliban or Al Qaeda to either world peace or to his/their own country's population(s), the simple fact is that Gulf 2 was an illegal war and Afghanistan (and now Iraq) was/is legitimate!

My thoughts are that Saddam was the greatest threat to his/their own country, followed by IS and Taliban as equals.
Al Qaeda is currently greatest threat to World Peace followed by IS. That could change in the near future.
Saddam wasn't a huge threat to World Peace, though he did his best to incite retaliation from Israel - who acted with commendable, if unusual, restraint!

As Phil posted, the Objective in Afghanistan is not conquest, but the establishment of a government that applies reasonable Human Rights and is thus not a threat to its own people.

 

[c1973]

Tony Blair as PM only really made one fatal mistake and that was backing the US in their fight with Saddam 2nd time around, he was ill advised by many people BUT other than that he spoke sense and was a very credible politician IMO, unfortunately his legacy will always be tarnished by the war in Iraq.

I'd tend to agree with the above comment.

Tony Blair was a bloody good politician and leader imo. Sure, he got some things wrong imo, but he was generally pretty good at his job.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'd tend to agree with the above comment.

Tony Blair was a bloody good politician and leader imo. Sure, he got some things wrong imo, but he was generally pretty good at his job.

I tend to :thup: with this

 

[delc]

I was one of the millions of anti-war protesters back in 2003. I thought the war against Iraq was illegal and unjustified, not to mention too expensive for a small European country like the UK (hence the huge National debt the last Labour government ran up). Above all it was unlikely to solve anything and would lead to more Islamic terrorism. And boy were we proved right! Saddam Hussain was a pussycat compared with the Islamic State!

In my opinion, rather than making a fortune for himself, Tony Blair should be tried as a war criminal at The Hague and then strung up, but unfortunately i can"t see this happening. :angry:

 

[Fyldewhite]

Struggling to reconcile even a small part of the OP with reality tbh. Yes, he got the call on Iraq wrong....or maybe right, but for the wrong reasons. Other than that, look around you, hospitals with new buildings, schools with new buildings, both after a generation of decay and neglect. Minimum wage (which will never work and cripple the country), massively reduced hospital waiting times etc etc. I could go on but people quickly forget the stuff that never really makes the headlines. Some of the replies on here are just ill informed rantings but hardly surprising. Dare I mention the Daily Mail???

 

[delc]

Struggling to reconcile even a small part of the OP with reality tbh. Yes, he got the call on Iraq wrong....or maybe right, but for the wrong reasons. Other than that, look around you, hospitals with new buildings, schools with new buildings, both after a generation of decay and neglect. Minimum wage (which will never work and cripple the country), massively reduced hospital waiting times etc etc. I could go on but people quickly forget the stuff that never really makes the headlines. Some of the replies on here are just ill informed rantings but hardly surprising. Dare I mention the Daily Mail???

Hospitals and Schools we now can't afford to run because of New Labour's Private Finance Initiatives! They got their shiny new buildings for reasons of political popularity, but left the tab for future Governments to sort out! :angry: