Ball flight law

[JustOne]

How does that flatten the swing plane ?



And if the swing plane is flatter, how does that steepen the angle of attack?

Are the swing plane, swing path and angle of attack not all linked together?

ie
A swing path that is in to out will be below plane and a shallow angle of attack?

It's voodoo magic Bob

Flatter is the left arm not raising above the shoulder plane, it's not flat as in low and around the body Bob. Tilting the shoulders tends to achieve this whereas flat shoulders encourage arm lifting (ie more 2 plane than 1). Ball further back is 'steeper' and hands forward is 'clubface open'.

Further to this there is allowing the right leg to straighten, more weight on the left and hand path further inside, but that's for lesson 2

 

[JustOne]

Aztecs, driver is a lot harder to swing out at as the shaft is longer (try swinging out on a club with a shaft 18ft long!) Best way is better weightshift on the downswing, ball not too far forward and clubface a couple of °'s open for more dynamic loft to get it airborne. nb: If you open the clubface and don't get the weightshift then that puppy is going right!

 

[bobmac]

It's voodoo magic Bob

Flatter is the left arm not raising above the shoulder plane, it's not flat as in low and around the body Bob. Tilting the shoulders tends to achieve this whereas flat shoulders encourage arm lifting (ie more 2 plane than 1). Ball further back is 'steeper' and hands forward is 'clubface open'.

Further to this there is allowing the right leg to straighten, more weight on the left and hand path further inside, but that's for lesson 2

So the arms are swinging on the normal plane but the shoulders are on a steeper plane?
Does that mean the posture has to change on the backswing to steepen the shoulder tilt?

So you
move the ball back in the set-up,
hands forward
right leg straight at the top of the b/swing
more weight shift onto the front foot,
more shoulder tilt
hip tilt at impact
a steep in to out d/swing
open club face
no release
and a curtailed follow through.........

Have I got the gist?

 

[JustOne]

The gist for what Bob?

I thought you asked what would I say to someone who was hitting out-to-in that wanted to learn S&T.... not "can you tell me what S&T is so that I can see if I can criticise it".


I'm still waiting and wondering how you power your 'centered swing' that you're now advocating...?

 

[JustOne]

Does that mean the posture has to change on the backswing to steepen the shoulder tilt?

Posture ALWAYS changes on the backswing Bob

At address we are bent forward at the waist (forward flexion), at the top of the backswing we are no longer bent forward at the waist.

I thought you'd have known that

 

[Piece]

That sounds right OS.

If he wanted to change then I'd explain the necessity to start the ball to the right and move the ball back a little, the hands forward a little, and tilt the left shoulder down towards the ball on the backswing. These will have the combined effect of flattening the swingplane (in-to-out path), steepening the attack (better contact) whilst also opening the club slightly (ball starts to the right).

JO, in my opinion , this is dangerous advice especially for a 25 h/c who is new to game and a swing that you haven't seen. For all we know he could have a horrific grip, stance and a takeaway! Flattening the swing does not necessary promote an in-to-out path. In fact, if he's swinging with the arms you're going to get even more over the top and out to in path, exacerbating the problem.

This guy needs to have basic pro lessons before he engages something about shoulder tilt, flat planes, etc.

 

[JustOne]

That would be true if he was still lifting his arms (2 plane) however by tilting the shoulders you'd be trying to combat the lifting and make it more 1 plane where the arms don't go above the level of the shoulders and the hands go deep instead of up.... well that's the theory