Ball flight law

[bobmac]

How about this for a wacky idea...........
Maybe he just made a mistake.
People do

I dont believe is is explaining it correct.

don't they .

 

[SocketRocket]

How about this for a wacky idea...........
Maybe he just made a mistake.
People do



don't they .

Bob, you seem to take everything I say on the subject as a personal insult. I cant be bothered to discuss it with you if thats what you must resort to. If you have a problem with my posts, why not just ignore me, or even PM me with what you seem to dislike, maybe you could reply with a reasoned arguement. Your current digs do you no justice. From your reputation here I would have expected better.

 

[bobmac]

So much for my attempt at humour

 

[SocketRocket]

So much for my attempt at humour

Then try harder

 

[Oddsocks]

Would I be right in saying that there are effectively 9 shots with the new flight laws

Pull straight
Pull fade
Pull hook

Straight
Straight fade
Straight hook

Push
Push fade
Push hook

I'm just really tryIng to get my head around it.

 

[JustOne]

Confusing isn't it Oddsocks?

I prefer to think of it like this...

There are 13 potential shot shapes....

Clubface right shots: push-fade, push-slice, push-draw, push-hook, straight-push (goes straight right)

Clubface square shots: straight fade, straight, straight-draw

Clubface left shots: pull-fade, pull-slice, pull-draw, pull-hook, straight-pull (goes straight left)

Now seeing as I believe that all shots should be hit from the inside that excludes all 5 pull shots, so that leaves me with 8, I try not to hit anything with a square clubface so that now only leaves me 5 shots that I ever have to learn, I don't often need to hook or slice (although I need to know how just in case) and I don't really need to hit a straight-push so now I'm down to 2, push-fade and push-draw. The rest can rot in hell

 

[RichardC]

You make it sound so easy

 

[NWJocko]

Confusing isn't it Oddsocks?

I prefer to think of it like this...

There are 13 potential shot shapes....

Clubface right shots: push-fade, push-slice, push-draw, push-hook, straight-push (goes straight right)

Clubface square shots: straight fade, straight, straight-draw

Clubface left shots: pull-fade, pull-slice, pull-draw, pull-hook, straight-pull (goes straight left)

Now seeing as I believe that all shots should be hit from the inside that excludes all 5 pull shots, so that leaves me with 8, I try not to hit anything with a square clubface so that now only leaves me 5 shots that I ever have to learn, I don't often need to hook or slice (although I need to know how just in case) and I don't really need to hit a straight-push so now I'm down to 2, push-fade and push-draw. The rest can rot in hell

So after all that you're left with a draw and a fade................?

 

[JustOne]

So after all that you're left with a draw and a fade................?

Yep.... I don't know why people try to complicate things!......

 

[Oddsocks]

Making more sense by the minute. Assuming I'm being greedy I only need to learn 4 shots

Push fade, swing path in to out with club face right of the swing path
Push draw, swing path in to out with club face left of the swing path,

Pull fade, swing path out to in with club face right of the swing path
Pull draw, swing path out to in with club face right of the swing path

Is my understanding correct? Obviously this assuming both set up and target line are square?

 

[richy]

Making more sense by the minute. Assuming I'm being greedy I only need to learn 4 shots

Push fade, swing path in to out with club face right of the swing path
Push draw, swing path in to out with club face left of the swing path,

Pull fade, swing path out to in with club face right of the swing path
Pull draw, swing path out to in with club face right of the swing path
Is my understanding correct? Obviously this assuming both set up and target line are square?

That cant be right

 

[JustOne]

Making more sense by the minute. Assuming I'm being greedy I only need to learn 4 shots

Push fade, swing path in to out with club face right of the swing path
Push draw, swing path in to out with club face left of the swing path,

Pull fade, swing path out to in with club face right of the swing path
Pull draw, swing path out to in with club face LEFT of the swing path

Is my understanding correct? Obviously this assuming both set up and target line are square?

Not sure why you'd ever want to hit a pull-draw? That would start left and go more left, if anything you'd be after a straight-draw where it starts straight and goes a bit left (swingpath in to out clubface square, and it goes a lot left if you are swing too far in-to-out) which in my opinion is still hard as you need to square the face.

 

[richy]

My bad shot is a push fade.

If I wanted to turn that into a push draw all I have to do is closed the clubface more, is that right?

 

[Oddsocks]

Sorry about the pull draw, that was a copy and paste error

It's not to say I would use a pull draw, more to the fact of understanding how one could happen

 

[JustOne]

My bad shot is a push fade.

If I wanted to turn that into a push draw all I have to do is closed the clubface more, is that right?

If you can normally draw the ball then chances are that your push-fade is a result of your swingpath being a little too straight at impact. However if it's a case of your ball starting too far right then yes I'd suggest closing the clubface a few degrees as the swingpath required to draw a ball that starts too far right is VERY in-to-out.

 

[Oddsocks]

JO this is a great help. the reason im asking more is for 2 reasons if im honest. I have a friend who has recently started and is hacking about off about 25hc, irons are ok and fairly straight with maybe a slight bit of fade, but he hits a stronger fade with a driver/5w/hybrid.

With hes irons its pretty straight forward if (and its a big if) my understading of the flight laws is correct. he is either a very soft fade which ends up middle of the farway (pull fade?), or straight and ends up left side of the fairway, or for example on a short par 3 he will miss the green left side (straight pull)

Now again, if my understanding is right, the pull fade is being caused by a swingpath that is slightly out to in of the target line, with a grip that is seeing the clubface slightly open at impact, but still slightly more on the target line than the swing path

The straight pull is being caused by a clubface that is square to the swing path at impact, but on an out to in swing plane. from the target line.

Are my understandings correct.

 

[JustOne]

That sounds right OS.

If he wanted to change then I'd explain the necessity to start the ball to the right and move the ball back a little, the hands forward a little, and tilt the left shoulder down towards the ball on the backswing. These will have the combined effect of flattening the swingplane (in-to-out path), steepening the attack (better contact) whilst also opening the club slightly (ball starts to the right).

 

[Aztecs27]

This is all very confusing, but this thread has helped me understand (a bit). But I have a general swing question (might be one for Bob, but others will probably know the answer)

I've worked on getting my swing more in-to-out over the last few months with good results (ball starting right and drawing 4 or 5 yards back more often than not).

I can do this with my mid and lower irons with relative ease, but would I be right in thinking it's more difficult to replicate this new in-to-out (consistently, coming from a dyed in the wool out-to-in OTT swing) with longer shafted clubs, which is why it takes longer to get my driver consistently on this flight path. Or am I just being a knob?

 

[Oddsocks]

Az... your being a knob:rofl:

JO, thanks mate, its hard because hes worried about having lessons, so by understanding some of the basics better i may be able to straighten him up, im hoping that by him seeing some results, he will then invest in a few lessons.

 

[bobmac]

and tilt the left shoulder down towards the ball on the backswing.

How does that flatten the swing plane ?

steepening the attack

And if the swing plane is flatter, how does that steepen the angle of attack?

Are the swing plane, swing path and angle of attack not all linked together?

ie
A swing path that is in to out will be below plane and a shallow angle of attack?