Attesting a Score for Handicap

[MACM85]

Hello all,

Couple of mates and I were having a chat about this topic with nobody really knowing the exact rules.

Player A goes out to play a round of golf. They are playing as a single ball but have a member walking round with them who has a handicap but not actually playing due to injury or whatever reason.

Could Player A input a General Play scorecard as the non playing partner as the marker?

I personally think they are unable to as the whole point is they mark the card and play alongside. Another chap thinks it is fine. Another feels if the committee allow it then you're good to go.

 

[Steven Rules]

Amongst you and your mates, you are the least right. The marker doesn't have to be a fellow player - although 99.9% of the tiime this is the case. Many committees will stipulate who can and cannot be a marker for another player (e.g. must be playing in the same competition, must have a handicap) but in the absence of such stipulation it can be anybody - playing or non-playing.

See the definition of 'Marker'.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Amongst you and your mates, you are the least right. The marker doesn't have to be a fellow player - although 99.9% of the tiime this is the case. Many committees will stipulate who can and cannot be a marker for another player (e.g. must be playing in the same competition, must have a handicap) but in the absence of such stipulation it can be anybody - playing or non-playing.

See the definition of 'Marker'.

In its recent firm guidance on submission of GP cards - and what will happen to persistent miscreants - my club stressed that the attestor must have observed the round. Read into that what you will.

 

[doublebogey7]

Hello all,

Couple of mates and I were having a chat about this topic with nobody really knowing the exact rules.

Player A goes out to play a round of golf. They are playing as a single ball but have a member walking round with them who has a handicap but not actually playing due to injury or whatever reason.

Could Player A input a General Play scorecard as the non playing partner as the marker?

I personally think they are unable to as the whole point is they mark the card and play alongside. Another chap thinks it is fine. Another feels if the committee allow it then you're good to go.

The rules say nothing about the marker having to be a golfer let alone a player.
Their job is to mark the card and atest the score at the end of the round, why would they also need to be a player.

 

[3offTheTee]

The rules say nothing about the marker having to be a golfer let alone a player.
Their job is to mark the card and atest the score at the end of the round, why would they also need to be a player.

Surely that is open to manipulation. At our Club the marker has to attest the score.

If this is not happening the player could ‘attest’ the score himself. He could also arrive within the required distance of the Club, state he is putting in a GP score, go and have a few pints and return after 3 hours after attesting his own score!

 

[rulie]

Surely that is open to manipulation. At our Club the marker has to attest the score.

If this is not happening the player could ‘attest’ the score himself. He could also arrive within the required distance of the Club, state he is putting in a GP score, go and have a few pints and return after 3 hours after attesting his own score!

You must have misunderstood something? Imo, the definition of "marker" in the Rule book is clear that it is another person, ie, not the player making the score.

 

[rulefan]

Surely that is open to manipulation. At our Club the marker has to attest the score.

If this is not happening the player could ‘attest’ the score himself. He could also arrive within the required distance of the Club, state he is putting in a GP score, go and have a few pints and return after 3 hours after attesting his own score!

The Rules of Handicapping are clear.

2.1 Acceptability of Scores
A score is acceptable for handicap purposes if the round has been played:
* In the company of at least one other person, who may also act as a marker

4.4 Certification of a Score
A score submitted for handicap purposes must be:
(i) Certified by the marker (who keeps the player’s score) in accordance with the Rules of Golf
(ii) Made available for peer review

Rule 4.4 Interpretations:
4.4/1 – Clarification of Meaning of Peer Review as a Method of Certification of Scores
Peer review is normally conducted by someone:
* Playing in the same group or who was present during the round, and/or
* Who is a member of the same golf club as the player.
In all cases, it must be someone who:
*l Has formed a reasonable basis from which to provide support for a score that has been posted or challenge the player on any anomalies in the posted score,
or
* Has knowledge of the player’s demonstrated ability and can reasonably verify or challenge the Handicap Index issued to the player.

 

[jim8flog]

The rules say nothing about the marker having to be a golfer let alone a player.
Their job is to mark the card and atest the score at the end of the round, why would they also need to be a player.

How would a non player know how to interpret the rules and ensure the player has added in any penalty stroke if appropriate.

The requirement where I play is that the marker must have a handicap or be someone approved by the committee eg a pro*. However to use an app the marker must be someone on the WHS database so it would not apply to any pro that has not got a handicap registered with the WHS database.

*e.g. I allow one player to have his daughter as a marker, she is a pro golfer.

 

[rulie]

How would a non player know how to interpret the rules and ensure the player has added in any penalty stroke if appropriate.

The requirement where I play is that the marker must have a handicap or be someone approved by the committee eg a pro*. However to use an app the marker must be someone on the WHS database so it would not apply to any pro that has not got a handicap registered with the WHS database.

*e.g. I allow one player to have his daughter as a marker, she is a pro golfer.

As has been said many times in the past, a marker is not a referee. A marker is a score recorder, he asks the player what he scored and records it (Rule 3.3b(1)). There is no requirement in the Rules that the marker be able to "interpret the Rules".
The player is responsible for knowing the Rules and applying the Rules (Rule 1.3b(1)).

 

[doublebogey7]

Surely that is open to manipulation. At our Club the marker has to attest the score.

If this is not happening the player could ‘attest’ the score himself. He could also arrive within the required distance of the Club, state he is putting in a GP score, go and have a few pints and return after 3 hours after attesting his own score!

You've lost me, the atester/marker simply has to have witnessed the round, not sure what you've read into my post but I don't see where I suggested that the player could mark/atest their on score.

 

[rulefan]

How would a non player know how to interpret the rules and ensure the player has added in any penalty stroke if appropriate.

They are not required to know the rules, just be able to count to 9.

 

[nickjdavis]

They are not required to know the rules, just be able to count to 9.

9?

you need to get out more and play with a wider group of players.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

How would a non player know how to interpret the rules and ensure the player has added in any penalty stroke if appropriate.

They would probably do just as good a job of knowing and interpreting the rules as the majority of players!

 

[Deleted member 25172]

You’re the ones who know the rules so guess you’re right. Having said that, to me, to say that the only thing required is to have a person who can count to 9, seem a bit strange with the rules quoted in the earlier post where it states:

In all cases, it must be someone who:
*l Has formed a reasonable basis from which to provide support for a score that has been posted or challenge the player on any anomalies in the posted score,
or
* Has knowledge of the player’s demonstrated ability and can reasonably verify or challenge the Handicap Index issued to the player.

 

[rulefan]

9?

you need to get out more and play with a wider group of players.

When would they need to count to 10? NDB?

 

[rulefan]

You’re the ones who know the rules so guess you’re right. Having said that, to me, to say that the only thing required is to have a person who can count to 9, seem a bit strange with the rules quoted in the earlier post where it states:

In all cases, it must be someone who:
*l Has formed a reasonable basis from which to provide support for a score that has been posted or challenge the player on any anomalies in the posted score,
or
* Has knowledge of the player’s demonstrated ability and can reasonably verify or challenge the Handicap Index issued to the player.

Anomalies ..... only means counting.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Anomalies ..... only means counting.

Fair enough. I'll take your word for it that that is the case. Guess for me when I read:

"Has formed a reasonable basis from which to provide support for a score that has been posted or challenge the player on any anomalies in the posted score"

TO ME, reasonable basis entails more than the ability to count to 9 given the following:

4.4 Certification of a Score
A score submitted for handicap purposes must be:
(i) Certified by the marker (who keeps the player’s score) in accordance with the Rules of Golf

How does a person on a reasonable basis sign off a score in accordance with the rules of golf if they don't have any knowledge whatsoever about the rules of golf?

But, you're the rules guy here so accept that I'm wrong. Although I think it reads a bit more than weird.

 

[nickjdavis]

@rulefan (i cant quote your message for some reason)

Because you dont write NDB on your scorecard. You write your gross score. Your attestor attests your gross score.

 

[rulie]

Fair enough. I'll take your word for it that that is the case. Guess for me when I read:
"Has formed a reasonable basis from which to provide support for a score that has been posted or challenge the player on any anomalies in the posted score"
TO ME, reasonable basis entails more than the ability to count to 9 given the following:

4.4 Certification of a Score
A score submitted for handicap purposes must be:
(i) Certified by the marker (who keeps the player’s score) in accordance with the Rules of Golf

How does a person on a reasonable basis sign off a score in accordance with the rules of golf if they don't have any knowledge whatsoever about the rules of golf?

But, you're the rules guy here so accept that I'm wrong. Although I think it reads a bit more than weird.

Imo, the line in red (above) refers only to Rule 3.3b(1) of the Rules of Golf: "Marker's Responsibility: Entering and Certifying Hole Scores on Scorecard".

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Imo, the line in red (above) refers only to Rule 3.3b(1) of the Rules of Golf: "Marker's Responsibility: Entering and Certifying Hole Scores on Scorecard".

As said, fully appreciate that I’m wrong on this one, but it’s not inconceivable that some, or even a lot, of people could read that and interpret it in another way.

As I know that you and others here are rules officionados I trust that you’re right, but the rules aren’t always that easy understandable - IMO.