Assisted Dying

clubchamp98

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Who do you think religious leaders consider their flock. Well I’ll tell you. Everyone. Whether you are of one denomination, tradition or another or none matters not a jot to most religious leaders - most (I cannot say all) will not turn you away if you seek their help and support and neither will they exclude you from their words of advice. Whether you listen or not is up to the individual, but don’t tell them to simply to ‘talk to their own’ and not ‘talk to the press‘ - what utter tosh, and tosh that chooses to completely misunderstand the role and calling of any religious ‘leader’.

Plus as it happens in some traditions every member of that tradition is consider a spiritual ‘leader’, not just the vicars, priests, ministers, bishops, cardinals or whatever.

I am not going to debate further the role of religion in what will always be a very deep and difficult decision, and one that has for most a spiritual dimension, with spiritual being in the widest sense and not simply religious. Please do not tell ‘religion‘ to shut up - indeed some might find something interesting and valuable to their life if they listened.
Maybe but lots won’t.
That’s my point.
 

Voyager EMH

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On the census form, I put "Golf" as my religion.

There are a set of rules and a code of conduct that I must follow.
There are millions of devotees around the world.
There are special places of worship and a recognised world centre in Scotland where many pilgrims go each year.
My holy day is Saturday, but I can worship any day between sunrise and sunset.
There are many learned people to offer help, advice or instruction for your chosen level of participation.

I don't know of the "golfing community" having taken a particular stance on assisted dying. I wish other groups would do the same. It only clouds a very real and important issue.

This is my personal view,
We are all going to die. The dying person should have their views and wishes respected as much as is legally possible. I want it to be so for me, when my time comes.
Let us always question and debate our laws and improve them according to an increase in human understanding.
 
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chrisd

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The question of assisted dying is an extremely difficult one to come to a conclusion on, especially as I get older. Yes, I feel that I will know when the time is right and that'll probably be when there is no quality of life left, whether or not ill health is the cause of arriving at that point. Not being able to make that decision for myself is certainly a concern and that's the big debate, is the person being pushed to agree for the benefit of the family (or others) and not the person solely for themselves and that is the big issue, but not allowing assisted dying can be quite wrong, I believe, when it's clear that it's really "the time". How you decide that is a decision I hope never to be part of, and, finally, religion must have no part to play in the making of rules on this, if an individual, or family, are going to use religion to decide that's up to them but I personally dont want the CofE (or any other religion) to play any part in the overall "right or wrong debate" and any following legislation - I do not believe in any form of God and dont want my life ended, or not ended, with a Gods will playing any part in deciding.
 

Blue in Munich

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We are at will to ignore their opinion. Some political parties have views on such matters, take the death penalty for example, the majority may be in favour of it but the Politic advise us that it's wrong. We live in a free society where we can accept or reject the views of others, if religious organisations have leaders then it's not surprising that they will give interpretations on matters of life and death.

We are NOT at will to ignore their opinion when the result of that opinion dictates that a law which may assist many is not passed because of their influence.

They are actually free to not take advantage of such a law, were it to be passed, but their position seems to be to deny it to all rather than advise their followers that it would be wrong in the eyes of their God to do this.
 

Blue in Munich

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If you only want those organisations that have the support of a majority of the country to be permitted to have a say on important matters, then we are not going to have much public information giving and discourse of the sort we are not allowed to discuss here. But hey…that’s different isn’t it…

And on that I’m out.

They are perfectly free to voice their opinion that it is not for them or their followers, but as a significant minority they should not be in a position to unduly influence the outcome of the debate. Just as much as people are free to follow a religion, they would equally be free to endure a long, agonising death because their church tells them it is God's will, but it doesn't mean they should be in a position to enforce a long, agonising death on those who would choose to take their own life if the law permitted it.
 

Hobbit

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That's not the case with all religions though, some have huge influence on people's lives.

We’re talking about the U.K., not Saudi. But for argument’s sake what proportion of British citizens in the U.K. are Muslim?

Religious influence in politics in the U.K. is negligible.
 

bobmac

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Please do not tell ‘religion‘ to shut up - indeed some might find something interesting and valuable to their life if they listened.

Which religion are we talking about?
Is there going to be a ring of all religions around the hospital bed?
Christians, Muslims, Mormons, Hindus, Buddhists, Scientologists etc
And if not, who chooses which religions should be represented?
 

Swinglowandslow

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We are at will to ignore their opinion. Some political parties have views on such matters, take the death penalty for example, the majority may be in favour of it but the Politic advise us that it's wrong. We live in a free society where we can accept or reject the views of others, if religious organisations have leaders then it's not surprising that they will give interpretations on matters of life and death.

Yes, but give them from the pulpit, not Parliament.

And, have the guts to give the real reason they are objecting.i.e. That it is against their God's teaching, because it is their dogma etc...
Not fall back on other's practical, opposite views, e.g. Abuse by relatives, mental inadequacy, etc
 

ColchesterFC

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I would guess that as many, and probably more, people are members of the AA, RAC or other breakdown organisations as are members of a church. Maybe the heads of the breakdown organisations should give their view on assisted dying as they represent as many people as church leaders?
 

Swinglowandslow

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Why are there 26 seats for the Lords Spiritual in the house of Lords?

Exactly! The why is answered as being from a time when the occupants were part of the ruling order of the Country.
I think in most people's view now , they should not be there. They are a body whose views/raison d'etre the vast majority of the populace disagree with.
 

Tashyboy

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Exactly! The why is answered as being from a time when the occupants were part of the ruling order of the Country.
I think in most people's view now , they should not be there. They are a body whose views/raison d'etre the vast majority of the populace disagree with.
Totally agree with you, unfortunately the same could be said if our political parties who will have the final say on this.
 

bobmac

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Exactly! The why is answered as being from a time when the occupants were part of the ruling order of the Country.
I think in most people's view now , they should not be there. They are a body whose views/raison d'etre the vast majority of the populace disagree with.

Interesting that
1 Corinthians 14:34
34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

And yet...

Under the Lords Spiritual (Women) Act 2015 whenever a vacancy arises among the Lords Spiritual during the ten years (18 May 2015 – 18 May 2025) following the Act coming into force, the vacancy has to be filled by a woman, if one is eligible.
 

clubchamp98

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I would guess that as many, and probably more, people are members of the AA, RAC or other breakdown organisations as are members of a church. Maybe the heads of the breakdown organisations should give their view on assisted dying as they represent as many people as church leaders?
Yes but I would have thought Mark Zuckerberg and Geoff Bezos would be the first to be asked. ( based on numbers of followers in the UK)
But their not British.
Ask the people is the only way imo.
It’s us that it affects.
 

SocketRocket

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Exactly! The why is answered as being from a time when the occupants were part of the ruling order of the Country.
I think in most people's view now , they should not be there. They are a body whose views/raison d'etre the vast majority of the populace disagree with.
I totally agree, the HOL can't go quick enough for me and by that I mean all of them but we can't pick and choose when they are of some use, many were praising their views on some subjects not so long ago.
 

stefanovic

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Surround yourself by as many people as you like (including your Facebook friends) but the stark reality is that we are born alone, we live alone, and we die alone.
Your imaginary friend above cannot help you either. You have been born to suffer and die. That is how evolution works.

As I believe in reality, I'm unmoved by any faith system.
Which god would I need to pray to?
There have been hundreds down the ages that people have taken refuge in.
How would I know the right one?
Should I take it for granted that the culture I happened to be born into has the one true god?

Yet I note that when I walk into a town centre, the people I find there are just one possible set among maybe a trillion possible sets that I could encounter.
This is because the number of people allowed for by our genes way outnumbers the total population.

For me to be here my parents had to meet and their parents did, and so on back in time through thousands of generations.
Yet here I am in my ordinariness, when countless millions of potential people never made it into life.
That would include people far greater than Shakespeare, Einstein, Newton.

So I don't need any extra reward in Heaven (or wherever souls go).
I have lived.
I'll take what is on offer to alleviate the pain of death when it approaches.
 

bobmac

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So I don't need any extra reward in Heaven (or wherever souls go).
I have lived.
I'll take what is on offer to alleviate the pain of death when it approaches.

2 more Ricky Gervais phrases....
Religious person...you have nothing to live for
RG...on the contrary, I have nothing to die for.

Religions greatest trick wasn't to get people to believe in God, it was to tell others you should never question the idea.
 
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