Assisted Dying

SocketRocket

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Our political structure is what it is and as long as it remains this way there's no point in people bellyaching about it. Bishops have been a part of the politic in this nation for well over a thousand years although the power they wield, just like the powers of all members of the HOL is limited and only a method of reviewing and recommending changes to law. I would like to see the lot of them replaced by an elected second house. It's not just Peers from the church it's also the old boys and girls regime.
 

Fade and Die

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Surround yourself by as many people as you like (including your Facebook friends) but the stark reality is that we are born alone, we live alone, and we die alone.
Your imaginary friend above cannot help you either. You have been born to suffer and die. That is how evolution works.

As I believe in reality, I'm unmoved by any faith system.
Which god would I need to pray to?
There have been hundreds down the ages that people have taken refuge in.
How would I know the right one?
Should I take it for granted that the culture I happened to be born into has the one true god?

Yet I note that when I walk into a town centre, the people I find there are just one possible set among maybe a trillion possible sets that I could encounter.
This is because the number of people allowed for by our genes way outnumbers the total population.

For me to be here my parents had to meet and their parents did, and so on back in time through thousands of generations.
Yet here I am in my ordinariness, when countless millions of potential people never made it into life.
That would include people far greater than Shakespeare, Einstein, Newton.

So I don't need any extra reward in Heaven (or wherever souls go).
I have lived.
I'll take what is on offer to alleviate the pain of death when it approaches.

This view sounds very bleak and I cannot accept it. My first memories were of loving parents, and all my life I’ve had good friends, girlfriends and now a wife and children, I honestly don’t think I have ever been alone, and when the day comes to leave this life I do not think I will be alone. Part of living is dying, it is as natural as being born, and as a civilised society it is our duty to make the passing as easy as possible. My Mum died of cancer, it was horrible, we had the hospice at home service and the nurses were absolutely brilliant, the way they supported my dad and looked after her was wonderful. I was very relieved when they said it won’t be long now, and I do not know if it was experience or over medicating but they were right. The suffering was over.
It is the humane thing to do, anything else is surely just cruel?
Religion plays no part in my life but I recognise it has its place in society but it should not be included in making this decision.
 

Blue in Munich

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Our political structure is what it is and as long as it remains this way there's no point in people bellyaching about it. Bishops have been a part of the politic in this nation for well over a thousand years although the power they wield, just like the powers of all members of the HOL is limited and only a method of reviewing and recommending changes to law. I would like to see the lot of them replaced by an elected second house. It's not just Peers from the church it's also the old boys and girls regime.

If enough people bellyache about it, those potentially making the laws may realise the true feeling of the country rather than the views of those who purport to be tending the flock and therefore speaking on behalf of it.
 

SocketRocket

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If enough people bellyache about it, those potentially making the laws may realise the true feeling of the country rather than the views of those who purport to be tending the flock and therefore speaking on behalf of it.
Please don't take bits of my post out of contex. I made it quite clear I am in favour of sacking the lot.
 

SocketRocket

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I'm not taking it out of context. If you think I am then maybe you need to make your point a little more clearly.
My point was made perfectly clearly. Highlighting a line from it out of context to support your own was wrong. You are of course entitled to disagree with me but please argue against the complete meaning.
 

Robster59

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I'm late into this but just for my twopennorth. I watched my Dad die in front of my eyes in absolute agony. The only way he could drink was a sponge on a stick dipped in water, he had to have a catheter fitted to allow him some relief and minutes before he died I watched his whole body writhe in agony at the pain that was going through him. I haven't told any of my family this as there is no need for them to know how much he suffered. But I know if my dad could have been allowed to die with a bit of dignity, he would have done. He had already given instructions not to be resuscitated, and I would rather he passed away with some dignity of his own choice thank go through all the pain and agony he had over his final months.
And having seen my father-in-law go through vascular dementia, and seeing the lifestyle he has, I would rather, if I was in that position, to go rather than put my family through the pain and anguish of watching me deteriorate.
 

Billysboots

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I'm late into this but just for my twopennorth. I watched my Dad die in front of my eyes in absolute agony. The only way he could drink was a sponge on a stick dipped in water, he had to have a catheter fitted to allow him some relief and minutes before he died I watched his whole body writhe in agony at the pain that was going through him. I haven't told any of my family this as there is no need for them to know how much he suffered. But I know if my dad could have been allowed to die with a bit of dignity, he would have done. He had already given instructions not to be resuscitated, and I would rather he passed away with some dignity of his own choice thank go through all the pain and agony he had over his final months.
And having seen my father-in-law go through vascular dementia, and seeing the lifestyle he has, I would rather, if I was in that position, to go rather than put my family through the pain and anguish of watching me deteriorate.

So sorry to hear you had to go through that with your dad. For me, your words bring into stark focus what this is all about - not politics, religion, or any of that, but allowing us and our loved ones the choice in the right circumstances to die peacefully and with dignity rather than tortuously.
 

stefanovic

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It seems that animals can be humanely put down, but not humans in the eyes of religion.
Religion does not consider humans to be animals, but we are.
We share virtually the same genetics as other members of the ape family.
You wouldn't want to see a chimpanzee in pain, but a human?

So what happens when we die?
The body cools, rigor mortis sets in, our metabolism which has kept us going all our lives ceases, our molecules stop functioning, the body decomposes, the brain turns to liquid, the tongue protrudes.
Left unattended the corpse may become like a maggot farm. If buried underground it becomes worm and plant food until nothing is left other than teeth and skeleton.
That's the reality awaiting all of us.
 

oxymoron

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I'm late into this but just for my twopennorth. I watched my Dad die in front of my eyes in absolute agony. The only way he could drink was a sponge on a stick dipped in water, he had to have a catheter fitted to allow him some relief and minutes before he died I watched his whole body writhe in agony at the pain that was going through him. I haven't told any of my family this as there is no need for them to know how much he suffered. But I know if my dad could have been allowed to die with a bit of dignity, he would have done. He had already given instructions not to be resuscitated, and I would rather he passed away with some dignity of his own choice thank go through all the pain and agony he had over his final months.
And having seen my father-in-law go through vascular dementia, and seeing the lifestyle he has, I would rather, if I was in that position, to go rather than put my family through the pain and anguish of watching me deteriorate.

As Robster says above regarding his Fil, my dad went the same way its a cruel illness and a look at the dementia thread will enlighten people as to what the relatives have to go through .My dad always said "If i cant wipe my backside , i don't want to be here ". Loss of dignity ,memory and function as well as suffering pain are all things we don't want for our loved ones but we still put them through it when in a lot of cases the have made their wishes known previously but we cannot carry them out in todays "civilized " society .

A very emotive subject with no right or wrong , but looking at a parent in pain, confusion and fear gives you nightmares that last .
 

Hobbit

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I'm late into this but just for my twopennorth. I watched my Dad die in front of my eyes in absolute agony. The only way he could drink was a sponge on a stick dipped in water, he had to have a catheter fitted to allow him some relief and minutes before he died I watched his whole body writhe in agony at the pain that was going through him. I haven't told any of my family this as there is no need for them to know how much he suffered. But I know if my dad could have been allowed to die with a bit of dignity, he would have done. He had already given instructions not to be resuscitated, and I would rather he passed away with some dignity of his own choice thank go through all the pain and agony he had over his final months.
And having seen my father-in-law go through vascular dementia, and seeing the lifestyle he has, I would rather, if I was in that position, to go rather than put my family through the pain and anguish of watching me deteriorate.

Ditto with my mum, horrendously prolonged painful death that went on for weeks.

Her last words to the Ward Sister the night before she died, “are my kids ok?” She was in a hell of all hells at that point but she still thought of us…. Treasured words well remembered but she didn’t need to suffer the way she did.

She was a devout catholic, with all its trimmings, but she was also a retired nursing Sister. She had seen countless painful deaths and totally agreed with assisted death.
 

SocketRocket

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I understand that it's horrible to see loved ones die in pain, I've been through it with my family but what I still can't get to grips with is 'who takes the life'? OK, someone who is compis mentis and fit enough to take a life-ending drink is one thing but what about all the cases where the person isn't. Take many of the cases discussed here, would a family member or a Nurse/Doctor administer the drugs, what protections would need to be in place to ensure it's not carried out for the wrong reasons. Like the death penalty for criminals it's one thing to be in favour of it but another to ensure it's right beyond doubt.

Im not making this point lightly as I understand the anguish of seeing a loved one die in pain but I know I couldn't press the button and I couldn't expect someone else to either. The comparison with animals is not a parallel in my opinion, I've broke my heart over dogs that we've had put down but it's not quite the same as your flesh and blood.
 

SocketRocket

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It seems that animals can be humanely put down, but not humans in the eyes of religion.
Religion does not consider humans to be animals, but we are.
We share virtually the same genetics as other members of the ape family.
You wouldn't want to see a chimpanzee in pain, but a human?

So what happens when we die?
The body cools, rigor mortis sets in, our metabolism which has kept us going all our lives ceases, our molecules stop functioning, the body decomposes, the brain turns to liquid, the tongue protrudes.
Left unattended the corpse may become like a maggot farm. If buried underground it becomes worm and plant food until nothing is left other than teeth and skeleton.
That's the reality awaiting all of us.
I think we're all aware of the death process but I'm not sure how that's relevant.
 

RichA

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I understand that it's horrible to see loved ones die in pain, I've been through it with my family but what I still can't get to grips with is 'who takes the life'? OK, someone who is compis mentis and fit enough to take a life-ending drink is one thing but what about all the cases where the person isn't. Take many of the cases discussed here, would a family member or a Nurse/Doctor administer the drugs, what protections would need to be in place to ensure it's not carried out for the wrong reasons. Like the death penalty for criminals it's one thing to be in favour of it but another to ensure it's right beyond doubt.

Im not making this point lightly as I understand the anguish of seeing a loved one die in pain but I know I couldn't press the button and I couldn't expect someone else to either. The comparison with animals is not a parallel in my opinion, I've broke my heart over dogs that we've had put down but it's not quite the same as your flesh and blood.
The idea of "taking a life" is the whole problem. Not everyone sees it that way. If it was a life well lived, why not allow it to end with dignity but without agony?
There are probably medical staff who already respect DNRs, withholding of food or switching off of life support who might not view the addition of a suitable drug to the persons IV as "taking a life" as much as facilitating a peaceful and dignified departure from life.
I had the privilege of holding my Mum's hand as she died, after 3 days of mouth care and being unresponsive for the last 36 hours. She'd had dementia for several years.
Even unconscious, she was clearly in great physical distress for the last 10 minutes. I pity those of us who will be fully alert when it happens.
 
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