Are you cheating if you don't know the rules?

[Robobum]

The difference being that there is an appointed man (usually of questionable parentage) in black (or yellow, green etc) who has final say.

Similarly, if you do have a competition with a RO present, his ruling sticks regardless of whether its correct or not

 

[guest100718]

Someone I know plays football to a pretty high level and I asked him hat the ruling would be if the goalkeeper kicked the ball from a goal-kick and the wind blew the ball back towards him and into the goal.

He didn't know the ruling.

Cheat.

he can ask the REF....

 

[Foxholer]

I personally think that every golfer should take time to understand and learn the rules. If you are not sure, ask.

WOuld i brand the person a cheat if they had no idea they broke the rule, No. but should they be penalised/dq'd from the competition? 100%

Sometimes, a harsh penalty is the only way to learn!

i got dq'd (Well, dq'd myself) in a junior club champs i won many years ago because i didnt know that once you had left the teeing area, if you return to hit another one, it can no longer be a provisional a ball. I walked back, hit what i thought was a provisional. In the mean time my playing partners found my original, therefore i carried on with that.

I was heart broken when i found out, but had no choice but to DQ myself

I wonder how many forumers actually know that rule?

And I wonder how many also incorrectly believe that as soon as you head back to where you last played that they should stop searching. That was certainly what my playing partners believed until I told them to keep looking and I'd play 2 balls if found (I had a good score going).

In those circumstances, it's not until you actually put another ball in play (either by hitting it from the tee, or dropping it if not from the tee) or 5 minutes has elapsed that the ball is lost - since 1964.

 

[Foxholer]

I was thinking back to a mixed foursomes match a few years ago when we were looking for blokes tee shot; couldn't find it so his lady partner headed back to the tee and played another ball. As she was walking back to us we found original ball - 'roughly' within 5mins of starting to look - so bloke claimed ball was found within 5mins so could play on using that ball, and not the one his partner had played. Apart from the fact that we must have spent a lot longer than 5mins looking for it - he was the current club captain so I didn't question as I wasn't 100% sure. I am now. And we lost. No hard feelings - now - some years later.

So by some folks logic, that would make all 4 of you cheats!

 

[6inchcup]

as in everything IGNORANCE is no excuse,doesn't matter if you knew you were cheating or not breaking the rules is breaking the rules and a cheat is a cheat.ask TIGER WOODS.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

as in everything IGNORANCE is no excuse,doesn't matter if you knew you were cheating or not breaking the rules is breaking the rules and a cheat is a cheat.ask TIGER WOODS.

I was wondering how long it would take someone to bring Tiger into this.

So what you're saying is that if you don't know a rule, you are a cheat? Seems a bit harsh to me

 

[Robobum]

as in everything IGNORANCE is no excuse,doesn't matter if you knew you were cheating or not breaking the rules is breaking the rules and a cheat is a cheat.ask TIGER WOODS.

I'd wager my house and everything I own that, by your post, I have cheated. I'd be very surprised if I was alone

 

[Hacker Khan]

I'd wager my house and everything I own that, by your post, I have cheated. I'd be very surprised if I was alone

I would argue that every golfer has cheated at some time in their life if that is the criteria. So therefore every golfer is a cheat. And there was me thinking it was such a noble sport.....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

as in everything IGNORANCE is no excuse,doesn't matter if you knew you were cheating or not breaking the rules is breaking the rules and a cheat is a cheat.ask TIGER WOODS.

Come on - that's daft - cheating is an active and deliberate activity. Not knowing the rules is passive - you are absolutely NOT a cheat if you do not know the rules. Ignorance is no defence if you are pulled on something you did because you did not know the rules. If I claim an interpretation of a rule that others disagree on, then the only person who knows whether or not I am trying to cheat is me.

Even I get a rule wrong and my PPs are fully aware of what I am doing and they don't question me - then I am not a cheat - I've just got a rule wrong. And if I am subsequently pulled on it and suffer the penalty - that is my own fault. And I will be more diligent about learning the rules - but I am only a cheat if I do something that I know breaks the rules and I do it without seeking advice from PPs. And surely that is all there is to it.

 

[Hacker Khan]

as in everything IGNORANCE is no excuse,doesn't matter if you knew you were cheating or not breaking the rules is breaking the rules and a cheat is a cheat.ask TIGER WOODS.

You can not say that every golfer is ignorant and therefore a cheat just because they do not know every rule. Well I suppose you can, but it is a rather short sighted attitude.

So young person who the game desperately needs to attract, you want want to try out the game. Excellent, enjoy your day, have some fun (by the way, you haven't got your shirt untucked have you?? no, that's good), but just remember that if you happen to break any of the many complicated rules then you will be called a cheat. That OK? Great, enjoy......

 

[Robobum]

I would argue that every golfer has cheated at some time in their life if that is the criteria. So therefore every golfer is a cheat. And there was me thinking it was such a noble sport.....

Golf has gone to the dogs!!!!

What next, diving? Biting? Racial abuse? Dogging?

 

[Hacker Khan]

Golf has gone to the dogs!!!!

What next, diving? Biting? Racial abuse? Dogging?

Performance enhancing drug abuse??

 

[chrisd]

Come on - that's daft - cheating is an active and deliberate activity. Not knowing the rules is passive - you are absolutely NOT a cheat if you do not know the rules. Ignorance is no defence if you are pulled on something you did because you did not know the rules. If I claim an interpretation of a rule that others disagree on, then the only person who knows whether or not I am trying to cheat is me.

Even I get a rule wrong and my PPs are fully aware of what I am doing and they don't question me - then I am not a cheat - I've just got a rule wrong. And if I am subsequently pulled on it and suffer the penalty - that is my own fault. And I will be more diligent about learning the rules - but I am only a cheat if I do something that I know breaks the rules and I do it without seeking advice from PPs. And surely that is all there is to it.

I agree to a large extent, but, what about someone who doesn't bother to learn even the most basic of rules. You shouldn't play golf like, say, football, where you rely on your playing partners to point out a transgression, they, you're PP's, are largely there to assist you and the rest of the field in playing fairly.

If you trot out to play a comp and don't know hardly any of the rules then there is a case for calling that play a cheat as part of he game does require a player to play to the rules, and not learning them to some acceptable standard is pretty close to cheating I would say.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Yes you are breaking the rules but I think you could argue that you are not playing outwith the spirit of the game?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You can not say that every golfer is ignorant and therefore a cheat just because they do not know every rule. Well I suppose you can, but it is a rather short sighted attitude.

It's not short-sighted - I'm afraid it is totally WRONG. I have got rules wrong in the past through ignorance and have been pulled up for it. If someone called me a cheat in such circumstances they would get a serious mouthful off me - no matter who.

 

[Region3]

as in everything IGNORANCE is no excuse,doesn't matter if you knew you were cheating or not breaking the rules is breaking the rules and a cheat is a cheat.ask TIGER WOODS.

You're right, ignorance is no excuse to avoid the penalties for breaking a rule. Doesn't make anyone a cheat though.

Dictionary definition....

The words 'dishonest' and 'deliberate' imply a knowledge of wrong-doing.

v.intr.1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game


Are you really saying you think TW knowingly broke the rule on national TV hoping no-one would notice, then mention it in his interview afterwards?

He might be a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them.

 

[Marshy77]

Someone I know plays football to a pretty high level and I asked him hat the ruling would be if the goalkeeper kicked the ball from a goal-kick and the wind blew the ball back towards him and into the goal.

He didn't know the ruling.

Cheat.

Its a corner if no one else has touched the ball.

Don't ask me a golf ruling though I haven't a clue lol

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree to a large extent, but, what about someone who doesn't bother to learn even the most basic of rules. You shouldn't play golf like, say, football, where you rely on your playing partners to point out a transgression, they, you're PP's, are largely there to assist you and the rest of the field in playing fairly.

If you trot out to play a comp and don't know hardly any of the rules then there is a case for calling that play a cheat as part of he game does require a player to play to the rules, and not learning them to some acceptable standard is pretty close to cheating I would say.

But if you are playing in a club competition or for that matter any friendly competition you will be accompanied by others. And even if you don't know a single rule you will be politely informed of any rule misdemeanours pretty promptly. I stand my my earlier assertion that to play golf you only need to know one rule - well actually two rules now that I think about it

1) You don't touch your ball after teeing off until it is in the bottom of the hole
2) If you lose your ball or can't play it (for whatever reason) go back to where you played the shot from and add one shot.

Everything else is clarification and detail.

Even not knowing this isn't actually cheating ikn my book because the first time you breach a rule you'll get pulled. It then comes down to the PPs to decide what to do if it's obvious that the player hasn't a clue.

 

[CMAC]

This one grates with me, as golf seems to be the only game that its acceptable to play in competitions with no idea of the rules.

I'm not going as far as to say its cheating, but ignorance of the rules can only be an excuse for so long.

Ignorance isn't an excuse, it's a reason as they didn't know the rule in the first place- not condoning it just clarifying. The law states ignorance is no excuse and also this is quite right. There is also misunderstanding or confusing the rule (god knows there are many many complicated and misleading rules in golf) ala Tiger at the Masters-don't go there-.

The onus is on each individual to be aware and understand the rules. Rules can actually benefit the player sometimes and if more people realized that they might at least memorise the basics and carry the abbreviated version with them (GM kindly supplied it free in an issue this year) :thup:

 

[noble78]

Straight question. You have been playing less than 3 years and play off a handicap of 25. Do you know that a hazard (whatever the colour of stakes) is a penalty?? Not asking if you know all the drop options, but the fact that they carry a penalty with them?
Not trying to catch you out by the way, and not being "funny"
Just trying to get a perspective from a relatively "new" player.
Rob

Yeah been high handicapper since I started, I know that it's a penalty if you drop your ball after hitting it into a water hazard yep