JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Discuss......
Are you cheating if you don't know the rules?
- Thread starter JustOne
- Start date
Foxholer
Blackballed
No!
spawn_ukuk
Tour Rookie
No, hard to discuss that one
TheClaw
Q-School Graduate
No. I feel that cheating is when you are aware that you are gaining an unfair advantage.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
So someone who is in a ditch and moves a couple of sticks away from behind his ball isn't cheating as he doesn't know the rule?
He then manages to extricate his ball from aforementioned ditch (now that he can get his club onto the ball) onto the fairway, then knocks it onto the green and holes the putt for par.....
You find out that he never knew that you couldn't move sticks so that's OK? If he's got his name up on the board twice then that sound appropriate? If he just won the last medal that's OK too? Would you consider his h/cap to be genuine?
He then manages to extricate his ball from aforementioned ditch (now that he can get his club onto the ball) onto the fairway, then knocks it onto the green and holes the putt for par.....
You find out that he never knew that you couldn't move sticks so that's OK? If he's got his name up on the board twice then that sound appropriate? If he just won the last medal that's OK too? Would you consider his h/cap to be genuine?
Foxholer
Blackballed
If you see it, you point it out. If you don't - and it's not Matchplay (unless he's your partner) - then you should DQ yourself (as you are waive-ing a Rule)
If no-one notices/pulls the guy before the competition is closed, then that's the end of the story.
No problem with handicap/winning the last Medal/being on the Board over this.
If no-one notices/pulls the guy before the competition is closed, then that's the end of the story.
No problem with handicap/winning the last Medal/being on the Board over this.
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full_throttle
Tour Winner
I would class cheating as doing something you know is prohibited.
As for handicap, it's most probably a false handicap, because those penalty shots not incurred could have resulted in buffer instead of a cut.
If I notice an infringement I point it out and try and find the ruling in the R&A rules book. I still think golf is about self discipline, and I would hope I could rely on my fellow competitors to play be the rules and penalise themselves for any infractions
As for handicap, it's most probably a false handicap, because those penalty shots not incurred could have resulted in buffer instead of a cut.
If I notice an infringement I point it out and try and find the ruling in the R&A rules book. I still think golf is about self discipline, and I would hope I could rely on my fellow competitors to play be the rules and penalise themselves for any infractions
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
Cheating is doing something even though you know it's wrong. If you don't know it's wrong, you are breaking the rules but that doesn't make you a cheat. Ignorance is no defence however and you would have to question the validity of his wins and h'cap once you found out he has unknowingly broken a rule as it would start to bring into question what else he has been doing unknowingly.
chrisd
Major Champion
There is a really fine line for me on this one. I think that "cheating" is going to come in to the equation when you have a golfer who has played for sometime, has a handicap,knows that there are numerous rules to abide by in the game and doesn't care to learn even the most basic ones that enable him/her to play a competition round as fairly as the others in that competition.
Innocent rule breaking is not cheating but it does rely on playing partners judgement of the situation and telling the wrongdoer of his flagrancies of the rules.
Innocent rule breaking is not cheating but it does rely on playing partners judgement of the situation and telling the wrongdoer of his flagrancies of the rules.
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
I played with a guy once who played off about a 12 handicap. He thought he got a "free" drop out of a "red staked" hazard and only incurred a penalty shot if he went in a "yellow" hazard. WTF was that all about???? He got the right hump when I put him straight.
Now it's ok saying "well if he didn't know the rule you can't have a go at him" but I find it impossible to believe that this guy had been playing for a long time on various courses and had never been picked up on this before.
Either that or he got his handicap playing one course all his life that didn't have any laterals.
If he had only been playing a few months and was off 26 or something I could believe it, but you don't get down to a 12 handicap without such basic knowledge as a hazard of any type incurs a penalty!
I wouldn't go as far as to call him a cheat, but his 12 handicap was "iffy" to say the least.
Now it's ok saying "well if he didn't know the rule you can't have a go at him" but I find it impossible to believe that this guy had been playing for a long time on various courses and had never been picked up on this before.
Either that or he got his handicap playing one course all his life that didn't have any laterals.
If he had only been playing a few months and was off 26 or something I could believe it, but you don't get down to a 12 handicap without such basic knowledge as a hazard of any type incurs a penalty!
I wouldn't go as far as to call him a cheat, but his 12 handicap was "iffy" to say the least.
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Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
Lets put another spin in this, is sour grapes not winning a medal or being on the board? 
But my view is he must know he's breaking said rules if he that consistent golfer, did you pull him on it james
But my view is he must know he's breaking said rules if he that consistent golfer, did you pull him on it james
Robobum
Money List Winner
This one grates with me, as golf seems to be the only game that its acceptable to play in competitions with no idea of the rules.
I'm not going as far as to say its cheating, but ignorance of the rules can only be an excuse for so long.
I'm not going as far as to say its cheating, but ignorance of the rules can only be an excuse for so long.
timchump
Q-School Graduate
mmm well the definition of cheating implies you do know the rules to be able to cheat so i don't think it makes sense..
if you are ignorant of the rules as are the people who you are playing with and anybody else who is witnessed the breach then you didn't cheat
but i think if you were unsure and didn't find out whether you broke the rules then you cheated
or if somebody informed you later you did break the rules then you did cheat and should withdrawl, i wouldn't feel good winning a comp if i knew i cheated - note to tiger only joking
if you are ignorant of the rules as are the people who you are playing with and anybody else who is witnessed the breach then you didn't cheat
but i think if you were unsure and didn't find out whether you broke the rules then you cheated
or if somebody informed you later you did break the rules then you did cheat and should withdrawl, i wouldn't feel good winning a comp if i knew i cheated - note to tiger only joking
Fader
Tour Winner
For me cheating is when you know the rule you're breaking and are flaunting it. If you don't know the rule and unwittingly make a mistake that's different and you can learn from it, however you should still be subject to whatever penalty is appropriate as that's how it should be.
But the caveat is if in doubt you should always ask your playing partners and if they don't know then mark the card and move on, once completed round don't sign card until speaking to pro to get clarified what you did and should have done then if a penalty needs applying do so and sign card. If you do this then no DQ ever need occur its a lesson I learnt the hard way after seeking a ruling from a partner who didn't know so we moved on and I signed my card wrongly. C'est la vie
But the caveat is if in doubt you should always ask your playing partners and if they don't know then mark the card and move on, once completed round don't sign card until speaking to pro to get clarified what you did and should have done then if a penalty needs applying do so and sign card. If you do this then no DQ ever need occur its a lesson I learnt the hard way after seeking a ruling from a partner who didn't know so we moved on and I signed my card wrongly. C'est la vie
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Could have typed this myself...:thup:
Knowing all the rules, and the decisions, is pretty much impossible but I would agree that the common(basic) rules need to be learned. I would go as far as to say some people find themselves in a situation that requires a ruling, and not having a rule book with them will choose to take advantage of a situation... how many times have we had to put someone right on the nearest point of relief only to hear, "but there's a tree in the way..."
noble78
Head Pro
I have a rule book in my bag as I admit I don't know every rule going, I've been playing less than 3 years though so getting there.
The sooner I know all the rules the better because the amount of times I've played match play against other clubs and some of the made up rules I've heard is not funny.
As for is it cheating if you don't know the rules, I'm not sure. If you don't know the rules I would say no but you should take time to know the rules. It's cheating if you know them but still do it for sure
The sooner I know all the rules the better because the amount of times I've played match play against other clubs and some of the made up rules I've heard is not funny.
As for is it cheating if you don't know the rules, I'm not sure. If you don't know the rules I would say no but you should take time to know the rules. It's cheating if you know them but still do it for sure
G
guest100718
Guest
Of course it's cheating, if you are going to play the game then you need to know the rules.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
I'm also with Chrisd and Robobum.
Anyone who plays golf knows
a. there are lots of rules
b. it's not possible to know them all
c. there is no referee on the course to make decisions for you
Accordingly if you are playing in comps you have a responsibility to familiarise yourself with the basic rules, carry a Rule book and to check anything you aren't 100% sure about on the course with your playing partners or back at the club when you hand your card in.
Otherwise it seems it is a case of not caring whether or not you are playing by the Rules. Maybe not cheating per se but essentially wilful negligence and so possibly not far off.
A lot of people seem to just rely on their playing partners to advise them, but make no effort themselves. Why do they assume the people they are playing with should know the Rules if they don't themselves?
Anyone who plays golf knows
a. there are lots of rules
b. it's not possible to know them all
c. there is no referee on the course to make decisions for you
Accordingly if you are playing in comps you have a responsibility to familiarise yourself with the basic rules, carry a Rule book and to check anything you aren't 100% sure about on the course with your playing partners or back at the club when you hand your card in.
Otherwise it seems it is a case of not caring whether or not you are playing by the Rules. Maybe not cheating per se but essentially wilful negligence and so possibly not far off.
A lot of people seem to just rely on their playing partners to advise them, but make no effort themselves. Why do they assume the people they are playing with should know the Rules if they don't themselves?
freddielong
Tour Winner
I live in the isle of man where the TT is held we used to have a big problem with Germans driving on the wrong side of the road, if they didn't know where the still in the wrong ?
Of course they where and yes rule blindness is a form of cheating
Of course they where and yes rule blindness is a form of cheating
