Are you cheating if you don't know the rules?

[Smiffy]

I have a rule book in my bag as I admit I don't know every rule going, I've been playing less than 3 years though so getting there.

Straight question. You have been playing less than 3 years and play off a handicap of 25. Do you know that a hazard (whatever the colour of stakes) is a penalty?? Not asking if you know all the drop options, but the fact that they carry a penalty with them?
Not trying to catch you out by the way, and not being "funny"
Just trying to get a perspective from a relatively "new" player.
Rob

 

[Hacker Khan]

As the further reaches of the rule book is so complicated then you can not really blame the average golfer for not knowing all of them. After all pros get caught by some sad armchair referee hours after they have finished a round when they do not know them, so you can't expect amateurs to do any better.

And in my opinion when you get know it all amateurs saying 'naa na na na naa, you should have known that' then in some cases I would reply I don't because I have a life, and it is a pass time I am playing for fun. I do my best to learn the important ones.

To me as long as people play to the spirit of the game if they do not know an exact obscure ruling then no problems. I think the game does itself no favours and is another example of making the barriers to entry very high when you have such a complicated set of rules. And smart arse know it alls who look down on others who don't know them all do not help.

 

[Birchy]

If you have got a handicap and you dont know all the obvious rules then you are cheating in my opinion. Theres always obscure ones that crop up once in a blue moon and thats understandable. Not knowing the hazard rules as mentioned above by Smiffy is just a complete joke and im not having that nobody has never told him before.

Acting like you dont know what they are when people pull you up on them is no excuse imo.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not knowing the rules is absoutely not cheating. The player has a resoponsibility to know the basic rules - but it is just a responsibility. I'm guessing you could play golf knowing only one rule. Golf is simply - you tee off and hole out - and in between don't touch your ball. And the rule? - If you can't find your ball you go back to a spot close to where you hit it as you can estimate; add one shot for going back - and play on.

Golf is a game of honour. A PP cannot always be checking or watching you - it is very easy to cheat if you want to even if you know the rules inside out.

No - not knowing the rules is not cheating.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Of course it's cheating, if you are going to play the game then you need to know the rules.

So you know all the rules then do you?

 

[guest100718]

So you know all the rules then do you?

Yes as well as I can do, and I know what to do if I am unsure, I also have the R&A rules app on my phone that has come in useful but usually to disprove a mythical rule.

 

[Birchy]

Yes as well as I can do, and I know what to do if I am unsure, I also have the R&A rules app on my phone that has come in useful but usually to disprove a mythical rule.

What if phones are banned at that course?

 

[Slab]

I read the question as, if you don’t know the rules are you cheating i.e does the act of not knowing the rules in itself then mean you are cheating, irrespective of whether you breach any?

I didn’t read it as if you don’t know the rules, and then breach a rule you don’t know about, are you cheating?

Answer to the first No, answer to second No

 

[guest100718]

What if phones are banned at that course?

I'm sure i'll cope.

 

[Smiffy]

Not knowing all of the rules is not cheating. I doubt if anybody knows "all" of the rules. Certainly a vast amount of professional golfers don't know quite a few of the more "common" ones, let alone the ones hidden within sub section II, paragraph "whatever". Even the tournament officials have to resort to the rules book now and again. If they don't know, how the hell are we supposed to know?
But not knowing a lateral water hazard incurs a penalty shot if visited is an absolute joke and makes a mockery of the guys 12 handicap (in my example)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not knowing all of the rules is not cheating. I doubt if anybody knows "all" of the rules. Certainly a vast amount of professional golfers don't know quite a few of the more "common" ones, let alone the ones hidden within sub section II, paragraph "whatever". Even the tournament officials have to resort to the rules book now and again. If they don't know, how the hell are we supposed to know?
But not knowing a lateral water hazard incurs a penalty shot if visited is an absolute joke and makes a mockery of the guys 12 handicap (in my example)

The problem with this example is that I can count on one hand the number of times I have been in a water hazard over the last 25yrs - honestly. My current club (10yrs a member) has one lateral water hazard and I can think of one occasion in that period when I have taken relief from it - and I had to ask what to do - and that is me an ex-6h/capper - having played for 40yrs. I just haven't needed to use the rule. And rules change - and the memory dims

 

[Smiffy]

My current club (10yrs a member) has one lateral water hazard and I can think of one occasion in that period when I have taken relief from it - and I had to ask what to do - and that is me an ex-6h/capper - having played for 40yrs. (

What you had to ask whether it was a penalty or you had to ask the drop options???
Two different things.

 

[guest100718]

Not knowing all of the rules is not cheating. I doubt if anybody knows "all" of the rules. Certainly a vast amount of professional golfers don't know quite a few of the more "common" ones, let alone the ones hidden within sub section II, paragraph "whatever". Even the tournament officials have to resort to the rules book now and again. If they don't know, how the hell are we supposed to know?
But not knowing a lateral water hazard incurs a penalty shot if visited is an absolute joke and makes a mockery of the guys 12 handicap (in my example)

If youre going to play any game or sport then you have a responsibility to learn the rules.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What you had to ask whether it was a penalty or you had to ask the drop options???
Two different things.

I knew it was a penalty - I didn't know my drop options other than going back to where I had hit it from (minor variation on my one rule you need to know)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If youre going to play any game or sport then you have a responsibility to learn the rules.

Yes - learn the basics. You'll soon be TOLD by PPs of rules that you don't appear to know. And you only need to be disqualified from a winning position or pulled up by the secretary once to appreciate that it is worth trying to learn as many rules as possible.

 

[Smiffy]

I knew it was a penalty - I didn't know my drop options other than going back to where I had hit it from (minor variation on my one rule you need to know)

That's the point I'm trying to make though. This guy played off 12 and didn't even know it was a penalty. I could have understood if he wasn't sure of the drop options, but not to know it was a penalty??? Makes a mockery of his handicap no?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

That's the point I'm trying to make though. This guy played off 12 and didn't even know it was a penalty. I could have understood if he wasn't sure of the drop options, but not to know it was a penalty??? Makes a mockery of his handicap no?

Yes, absolutely it does

 

[Hacker Khan]

If youre going to play any game or sport then you have a responsibility to learn the rules.

And any games' ruling body have a responcibility to make the rules of that game as understandable, uncomplicated, easy to interpret and implement as possible.

 

[cookelad]

To me cheating is a deliberate act, but ignorance doesn't and shouldn't excuse you from the penalty that comes from breaking a rule you don't "know". I once played with a 12 handicapper who wanted to take 2 club lengths from the OOB line, but thought the only option he had with a water hazard was stroke and distance - this was on a course with at least 25 red or yellow hazards and he'd been a member for years!!

Nobody says you have to know all the rules but if you can grasp the basics, water hazards, lateral water hazards, OOB & lost ball rules for example then the rest can be learned on the job.

 

[MendieGK]

I personally think that every golfer should take time to understand and learn the rules. If you are not sure, ask.

WOuld i brand the person a cheat if they had no idea they broke the rule, No. but should they be penalised/dq'd from the competition? 100%

Sometimes, a harsh penalty is the only way to learn!

i got dq'd (Well, dq'd myself) in a junior club champs i won many years ago because i didnt know that once you had left the teeing area, if you return to hit another one, it can no longer be a provisional a ball. I walked back, hit what i thought was a provisional. In the mean time my playing partners found my original, therefore i carried on with that.

I was heart broken when i found out, but had no choice but to DQ myself

I wonder how many forumers actually know that rule?