Are we obsessed with number nowadays?

[stevek1969]

I ask the question as recently i was fitted for a driver with a 7.5 degree loft on it as the numbers were spot on for that day and irons because the numbers were good, now I've got rid of both and got clubs with a 12 degree driver and irons with a different flex shaft as these clubs feel much better and easier to use. Another point is lessons the lad i use a very knowledge able guy uses Trackman for his lessons, you must get the club on this path this attack angle etc. Is or has feel gone out of the game we play and taken over by numbers, thoughts?

 

[duncan mackie]

Most don't stick at what the numbers tell them - they simply know better.

Feel and fact are frequently opposite sides of the same coin.

 

[BTatHome]

Maybe the best answer would be why did you get rid of your fitted clubs? What were they not doing compared to your new ones? Surely the original fitted ones where fitted for a purpose?

Similar to what Duncan says sometimes things don't fit your eye too (ask Homer about his Ping irons)

 

[stevek1969]

Maybe the best answer would be why did you get rid of your fitted clubs? What were they not doing compared to your new ones? Surely the original fitted ones where fitted for a purpose?

Similar to what Duncan says sometimes things don't fit your eye too (ask Homer about his Ping irons)

The fitted clubs were a struggle to get constancy out of them if i was swinging badly on the day, the were Callaway Xhot pros with a narrow sole ,I've went to Ping G30 with a wider sole and easier to hit, the driver was a 915 D3 ,i picked up an SLDR with 12 degrees of loft so much easier to hit, I've now realised at my age and lack of ability that these clubs are not for me and that i just want to try and make the game that bit easier for me

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Yes we are obsessed with numbers. I can't believe the number of people on this forum that are more concerned with their angle of attack or the number of degrees they are coming into the ball from the inside than where the ball actually goes!

I wouldn't mind if they were scratch handicappers but it seems most play off high teens and upwards

 

[JohnnyDee]

I'm in two minds about the ever-increasing reliance on numbers and computer modelling of shots. I believe that it really does mean something to Tour Pros, plus, scratch and low handicappers, but at average club player mid-handicap level I'm not entirely convinced.

Was I happy overall with having been custom-fitted last year? I have to say yes I was, but perhaps the benefits of custom-fit are, if I'm being kind, a tad oversold by the industry. Mine give me a sort of feeling that allows me to believe that on a good day I'll hit them pretty well. But will that be every day? Hell, no.

 

[Tongo]

Sport in general does seem to have got the balance wrong with its reliance on numbers. You can plough as many numbers into a computer as you want but all it will give you is averages. The computer cant take into account a player under or over performing. Look how the England cricket team were hamstrung by their reliance on stats and data.

 

[farfaeforfar]

We as amateurs who aren't the most skilled at the game shouldn't be worried about the numbers. The results, the lessons to get there and the fun should be in front of worrying about AofA, shaft flex, kick points, how many degrees of loft we use.

For example I've had everything custom fitted from driver to wedge. Throughout the custom fit expeirence I was given access to every concievable statistic of my swing (swing speed, ball speed, AofA, smash, spin rates) whilst interesting it didn't help me. What helped was knowing that who was fitting the clubs knew by the numbers given as a representation of my swing along with my feedback on feel of shot or club got us to a point where I was happy with the end product. Which is exactly what has happened.

When it comes to lessons a similar approach is taken. Me and the coach know numbers, facts and figures screw with my head. It always leads to one result, poor shots. So again, my lesson is based on the coach taking stock of what he see's before his eye's in result of a swing, the trackman stats and then presents me with the changes that I can feel or associate with a good swing. When i get told less information my swing, learning and progress motors in comparison to the early days when we focussed on trackman stats as I wanted to see all the nice figures etc.

In short whether its lessons or clubs it comes down to the person teaching or fitting being able to take the numbers/results away from me and turn then into a easy learning experience that has moved me forward.

 

[garyinderry]

Why ignore numbers? They are on the whole a fantastic tool. The confirm what is happening at impact. How you are coming into the ball etc.

If you can't make a few swings that resemble each other then forget about it.


Op. If you were recommended a 7.5 degree driver you must be hitting up on the ball quite a bit and or adding quite a bit of loft. The degree of your driver is only there to give you an optimal launch number. You can close and open the face to help also.

Unless the 12 degree sldr is now launching the ball at 17 degrees (the shaft will play a part too) and super low spin I fail to see how it can be preforming better.

Many people get it in their head that they can't hit a low lofted driver and and high one is much easier.

The loft ifs just a number to find a good launch.

 

[GB72]

I can be honest and say that my game is no worse off, in fact I am playing better, since I received my Adams Blue clubs. No stats, no figures just a choice of stiff or regular shafts (1 of each) and each club is performing as well or better than my previous custom fitted clubs.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Why ignore numbers? They are on the whole a fantastic tool. The confirm what is happening at impact.

So do eyes.

The greatest golfers of all time didn't have access to launch monitors etc. I'm not saying they are not useful. I am saying that lowly skilled amateur golfers put far too much importance on them.

 

[Tongo]

Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts.

 

[garyinderry]

I've seen a few videos where teachers have said the numbers have actually let them move towards a more feel based teaching rather than trying to hit specifics positions. The numbers then confirm along with the visual flight if they are on the right track.

 

[garyinderry]

Op - the fact that pings with a wide sole are easier to hit has nothing to do with the benefits of custom fit over not being fitted.

They are just that. Big shovels that are forgiving.

 

[stevek1969]

Op - the fact that pings with a wide sole are easier to hit has nothing to do with the benefits of custom fit over not being fitted.

They are just that. Big shovels that are forgiving.

Isn't that what we should be looking for more forgiveness , my handicap has went from single figures to where i am now so i need all the help i can get these days. Re the 7.5 driver was hitting my driver on what i thought was a good flight but according to Trackman it was too high hence the 7.5 ,when i was swinging well it was great , but these days are few and far between, the 12 degree with the shaft in it gives a good flight and decent length and confidence ,which is a big key for me

 

[garyinderry]

People want different levels of forgiveness. Not everyone wants to look down at big heads with big soles. In fact that was the thing putting our homer off his chipping.

If using a 7.5 deg driver was off putting. I have no doubt a super low launching shaft could have brought your flight down. If you had mentioned the forgiveness word he may have fit you for a d2.

 

[Spear-Chucker]

Stats and numbers only explain 17.498% of the golf swing, the remainder is feel. As any fule know.

 

[garyinderry]

Getting fitted is a two way street.

Had the op said he was struggling with his striking he could have requested the non pro version of the x hots and the d2 driver.

The consumer must do their homework too.

I would love to have seen the stats from the driver fitting.

 

[Qwerty]

I think on the whole a lot of guys are going down the route of being obsessed by numbers. Maybe some who have just taken the game up and think this is the only way to go when buying clubs

Ive said it for a while now.. How can a trackman/Flightscope etc tell me if I like the look or weight of a club?

Initially those are the two most important things for me.
If they're good and then the ball flight is good then I'm possibly interested in buying the club.

Ive made a few bad purchases based purely on numbers in the past. Its probably a topic for another thread but I'd be interested to hear if others have too.

I was supposedly custom fitted by a very well respected NW pro for a Titleist 910 driver with a certain shaft a few years back. All based on the numbers being very good.
£270 and it was probably the worst driver Ive ever owned and I've owned quite a few.
It isn't all about the numbers, far from it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I wanted a hybrid; I looked in the Pro shop and they had a few; the assistant pro suggested I tried that one; I liked the look of it so I took it to the practice ground and hit half dozen balls; they were a bit dispersed but went about 200yds; I thought - excellent - I can learn to use this club and make it work for me. And I have and it does. Thinking about it now - I don't actually know for sure it's loft or whether it is a stiff or regular shaft - never mind anything else about the shaft or club.

And that tends to be how I buy my clubs and I have absolutely no idea about the numbers that characterise my swing/striking etc. It really doesn't interest me.