And, we're off.....2016/17

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree it does depend on criteria. For example Arsenal are a hell of a lot closer to Utd now in terms of financial clout than we would otherwise have been. Wenger revolutionised Arsenal and put the club on a solid footing that will stand it in good stead for decades to come.

We could easily have become mid table strugglers if it wasn't for Wenger.

We are one of the safest clubs in the league now, self sustaining and not reliant on any external finances - well not as dependent as others that's for sure.

Clubs like Liverpool, Everton and Spurs haven't reached the same level of stability and without sounding too dramatic they have uncertain futures.

There's the problem right there, you're bringing LPool, Everton and Spurs into your argument, you's should be a level ahead and comparing yourself to Chelsea, City and Utd,
You didn't once mention trophies, even as a delusional Everton fan I expect us to win a trophy as a measurement of success, hence years of abject failure.
There's no trophy for financial stability and I can't see any PL team going bust in the next 20-30 years.

 

[Kellfire]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I don't believe Wenger refuses to spend money. I don't believe any manager, especially one who fails to deliver the main trophies for a decade, would refuse that money. The money isn't there to spend, it's being taken off as profits by the owner.

Whether or not Wenger is happy taking a big wage, knowing that failure is a probability every year, or if he truly believes each year is the year that he defies the odds is beyond me.

 

[sawtooth]

There's the problem right there, you're bringing LPool, Everton and Spurs into your argument, you's should be a level ahead and comparing yourself to Chelsea, City and Utd,
You didn't once mention trophies, even as a delusional Everton fan I expect us to win a trophy as a measurement of success, hence years of abject failure.
There's no trophy for financial stability and I can't see any PL team going bust in the next 20-30 years.

Can't see any PL team going bust in next 20-30 years? Really? I don't know how you can say that. There's a lot of money sloshing around but there's also a lot of financial liability. I think the whole model is a bit fragile and unsustainable but admittedly I'm no expert.

I think that is a real possibility or at least you might see 1-2 clubs fall down the leagues. Nothing is guaranteed and nothing is forever.

 

[pokerjoke]

I agree it does depend on criteria. For example Arsenal are a hell of a lot closer to Utd now in terms of financial clout than we would otherwise have been. Wenger revolutionised Arsenal and put the club on a solid footing that will stand it in good stead for decades to come.

We could easily have become mid table strugglers if it wasn't for Wenger.

We are one of the safest clubs in the league now, self sustaining and not reliant on any external finances - well not as dependent as others that's for sure.

Clubs like Liverpool, Everton and Spurs haven't reached the same level of stability and without sounding too dramatic they have uncertain futures.

Sean you baffle me sometimes.

You are knowhere need Utd in terms of financial clout if your club have no intention of spending it.

Pogba is a total waste of money at 100 million plus but someone is willing at Utd to spend big to deliver trophies.
Arsenal and Arsene will never spend 100 million so its irrelevant how much money you have in the bank.

Imo and in my experience 99.9% of supporters want success and trophies,coming top 4 and 1/4 finals of the C/L just doesn't sit well with me as success.

By all means be financially secure for decades but that's not what football is about.

 

[pokerjoke]

Fergie is undoubtebly the greatest PL manager we've seen.

Putting a balanced view across with regards Wenger, to me he HAS been superb and 2nd to Fergie, but, imo, he's had his day and he's the reason they haven't won the PL or CL in recent years.

:clap:

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Can't see any PL team going bust in next 20-30 years? Really? I don't know how you can say that. There's a lot of money sloshing around but there's also a lot of financial liability. I think the whole model is a bit fragile and unsustainable but admittedly I'm no expert.

I think that is a real possibility or at least you might see 1-2 clubs fall down the leagues. Nothing is guaranteed and nothing is forever.

Another answer about finances and nothing about trophies,
We're discussing Football not the FTSE 100.

 

[Fish]

Should be competing , playing attractive football and being in the mix yes.

So happy not to win if you come between 2nd-4th and played attractive football!

It will be nice to win but you have to be realistic. Yes Leicester did it last year but we all know that sort of thing happens once in a blue moon.

Well it does with Arsenal as well!

Arsenal were close last year as runners up and might go one better this year if we have less injury problems.

So 1 (ONE) better will mean 3rd at best then as the clubs that massively underperformed won't repeat that poor season as they are already strengthening their squads and some of those players are in pre-season friendlies already, but where are your new signings? You didn't statistically improve last season from any previous season/s so you'll stand still at best, again!

 

[Hobbit]

Fergie is undoubtebly the greatest PL manager we've seen.

Putting a balanced view across with regards Wenger, to me he HAS been superb and 2nd to Fergie, but, imo, he's had his day and he's the reason they haven't won the PL or CL in recent years.

That pretty much nails it for me.

I'd also add that Fergie also recognised when to go. Wenger is blinkered in that respect.

 

[Kellfire]

I'd also add that Fergie also recognised when to go.

Then stayed another few seasons leaving his successor with an awful squad and high expectations. He then pushed for his buddy, an appointment very few fans wanted, for the job and made it even worse.

Yes he won a league in his last season but he didn't leave us in a good place. He could've/should've gone a few years earlier on the back of the first Champions League final loss to Barca in my opinion.

 

[Fish]

That pretty much nails it for me.

I'd also add that Fergie also recognised when to go. Wenger is blinkered in that respect.

I think Fergie was very lucky in that last season, he should have gone the year before, but he got a real squeeze and then left poor Moysey with a load of knackered garbage.

 

[freddielong]

Another answer about finances and nothing about trophies,
We're discussing Football not the FTSE 100.

He was answering a specific point you raised about finances, you should probably read your own posts at some point.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

He was answering a specific point you raised about finances, you should probably read your own posts at some point.

He actually avoided the football question twice and focussed on finances, pherhaps you can read the posts and answer the points he ignored.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Clubs like Liverpool, Everton and Spurs haven't reached the same level of stability and without sounding too dramatic they have uncertain futures.

One has just built a new stand, increasing capacity by 8,000+, with outline planning permission for another stand being extended.

One has a spade in the ground to build a new stadium of around 60k.

One is on about its 3rd attempt to move out of it's stadium, sorry ground.

Arent these the type of things that can make a club more stable, by having increased customers, therefore more money to spend..........and doing what Arsenal did. Maybe we just need the right guy in the team manager/club accountant position to pay it off a bit earlier.No wonder he's one of the best paid managers, with his dual job.

Stable = accepting, CL money mediocrity?

 

[Blue in Munich]

I think Fergie was very lucky in that last season, he should have gone the year before, but he got a real squeeze and then left poor Moysey with a load of knackered garbage.

I'd second that. I'd also put Mourinho, for all his flaws, ahead of Wenger as a manager, but Fergie is without doubt the best by some distance in the modern era (God it pained me to type that!).

 

[sawtooth]

Top managers in PL

Unlimited spending

1. Fergie
2. Mourinho
3, Wenger

Restricted spending

1. Wenger
2. Fergie
3. Mourinho

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Top managers in PL

Unlimited spending

1. Fergie
2. Mourinho
3, Wenger

Restricted spending

1. Wenger
2. Fergie
3. Mourinho

:rofl:

That's a quality bit of fishing

Can you show me where on the trophies or winners medals it mentions money spent ?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Can't possibly publicly comment.

Haha you did didnt yer!!

i always knew you had a soft spot for Rooneh.....

 

[pbrown7582]

Haha you did didnt yer!!

i always knew you had a soft spot for Rooneh.....

Special request by the lad. Wembley Sunday too.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

P

Special request by the lad. Wembley Sunday too.

That auld chestnut eh

 

[Papas1982]

Top managers in PL

Unlimited spending

1. Fergie
2. Mourinho
3, Wenger

Restricted spending

1. Wenger
2. Fergie
3. Mourinho

When arsenal had money (pre emirates) I'd probably agree with the order.

But since the new stadium, with just PL counting, you have had no success, So financial struggles aside you shouldn't be on the list.

For the record, Ranieri wins the second list hands down, irrespective of past or future success. I'd also put moyes at everton above wenger if financial constraints count.