And, we're off.....2016/17

[Deleted member 16999]

The player decided that he didn't want to play in this comp a while back - no pressure is being applied to any player

Players should always have the right to choose - the clubs pay their wages and the clubs are the ones that suffer if something happens when they go away.

If someone wants to play international football then no one should stop him and I expect that's what happens - managers putting pressure on players not to go to tournaments ? I don't think that's the case , maybe meaningless friendlies some managers may speak to players carrying an injury or tired etc

But if a player himself doesn't want to go and would prefer to play for the club that pays his wage then he should be allowed to do that without any punishments.

The clubs are the ones that take any hits in regards the players yet they are the ones that pay the players. Club should always come first

So he's not retired then? Maybe he needs too to stop this happening in the future, otherwise all Countries will choose their best players.
I wholeheartedly agree players have a right to choose and none should be forced, but you can't pick and choose which Tournament is OK and which isn't when you're fully fit as that's not fair on your Country either.

 

[MegaSteve]

We often call for refs to use common sense. That is why he didn't send the young Everton player off. its a silly rule anyway.

Great to see the passion. would have been worth the red had he received it.

Couldn't put it better myself...

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Damn, just typed out a post and deleted it by accident!!

Not typing all again but basically if Liverpool asked player not to play in ACN I don't have a problem with that. It's up to the player he has the final say surely.

What if the player is 20 and intimidated by his big scary manager? He wants to play for his country but the manager is leaning on him, a la Fergie. That is where the governing body, FIFA, have to help. Take it out of the players hands, remove the power of intimidation from the manager or club.

 

[garyinderry]

Couldn't put it better myself...

Oh and I guarantee you, had the ref sent him off, sky would have had a whole host of clips showing booked players jumping into the fans.

The referees cannot win.

 

[Liverbirdie]

As is often said, these things usually balance themselves.

Its often said, but its the biggest load of bull in football.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Playing devils advocate here. Many managers put pressure on players not to play international football, there are some obvious examples on our own shores. In terms of African and Latin American players matches will involve long haul flights, sometimes questionable medical help and short turn arounds when they return from a midweek match. For the ACON the players are clearly away for a number of weeks and that has quite an impact on a club. It is not hard to see club managers and officials putting pressure on young players not to represent their countries and that is why this rule was brought in. Yes, there will be some occasions where players genuinely don't want to play but I believe you can appeal. The idea behind the rule is sound though IMO.

But if he wasn't playing for Cameroon when he was latterly at Schalke, its not Liverpool putting pressure on him not to play, but a player's own decision.

 

[Liverbirdie]

What if the player is 20 and intimidated by his big scary manager? He wants to play for his country but the manager is leaning on him, a la Fergie. That is where the governing body, FIFA, have to help. Take it out of the players hands, remove the power of intimidation from the manager or club.

I can understand that, but what if he genuinely doesn't want to play for them?

Maybe you have to officially retire and you sign an affidavit saying you are retiring yourself, and it lasts for your whole career, or at least 5 years.

It would possibly make them think twice, especially if you think you will move club at some stage. Maybe that's the sensible halfway option.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But if he wasn't playing for Cameroon when he was latterly at Schalke, its not Liverpool putting pressure on him not to play, but a player's own decision.

I totally understand that. He is getting caught in a rule that protects players and the international game on the whole but he is the exception. Cameroon can resolve this quite easily by signing him off but they are being awkward I believe.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I totally understand that. He is getting caught in a rule that protects players and the international game on the whole but he is the exception. Cameroon can resolve this quite easily by signing him off but they are being awkward I believe.

So typical of FIFA. BY "protecting" the players interests, he now cant play at all.

It is a minefield, but there should be transparent way forward. If you want to retire from int'l football, you do so for say 3 years minimum.

 

[ger147]

I can understand that, but what if he genuinely doesn't want to play for them?

Maybe you have to officially retire and you sign an affidavit saying you are retiring yourself, and it lasts for your whole career, or at least 5 years.

It would possibly make them think twice, especially if you think you will move club at some stage. Maybe that's the sensible halfway option.

There is no notion of "retirement" from international football within FIFA's rules.

If your country selects you, you are obliged to turn up. As an individual, you are of course free not to turn up if you so choose, there are no FIFA snatch squads. But if you do decide not to turn up, the rules are crystal clear i.e. you cannot play for your club if selected for international duty but you choose not to go unless your country give permission.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So typical of FIFA. BY "protecting" the players interests, he now cant play at all.

It is a minefield, but there should be transparent way forward. If you want to retire from int'l football, you do so for say 3 years minimum.

He hasn't retired though Pete, you may think it's semantics, but unless a player clearly states he has retired from international duty and no longer wishes to be considered for selelection then he's risking being called up, in the interview in October he stated he "wouldn't be playing in the ANC, but things may change", surely there's a breakdown in communication between him and Cameroon prior to him being called up, FIFA are rubbish and I can't see them doing the right thing by Matip.

 

[sawtooth]

I think the situation at Liverpool is that they don't know where they stand at the moment and are erring on the side of caution.

Is that right? FIFA haven't explicitly said that Liverpool cant play Matip have they? rather they don't want to take a chance in case of any penalties later on.

 

[freddielong]

I think the situation at Liverpool is that they don't know where they stand at the moment and are erring on the side of caution.

Is that right? FIFA haven't explicitly said that Liverpool cant play Matip have they? rather they don't want to take a chance in case of any penalties later on.

I thought FIFA had said that they cannot play him as cameron haven't said that it's ok

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I think the situation at Liverpool is that they don't know where they stand at the moment and are erring on the side of caution.

Is that right? FIFA haven't explicitly said that Liverpool cant play Matip have they? rather they don't want to take a chance in case of any penalties later on.

Cameroon have lodged a complaint against Matip, so LPool unfortunately have to be sensible in case Cameroon win tge complaint and LPool risk losing points! Would be nice if the FA stepped in and told Cameroon and FIFA to ram it.

 

[sawtooth]

I thought FIFA had said that they cannot play him as cameron haven't said that it's ok

Cameroon have lodged a complaint against Matip, so LPool unfortunately have to be sensible in case Cameroon win tge complaint and LPool risk losing points! Would be nice if the FA stepped in and told Cameroon and FIFA to ram it.

One thing is clear, Liverpool should not have found themselves in this position, they have handled it badly. :ears:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

One thing is clear, Liverpool should not have found themselves in this position, they have handled it badly. :ears:

Please enlighten us into how the club could have handled it any different to "so they wouldn't be found to be in this position"

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Please enlighten us into how the club could have handled it any different to "so they wouldn't be found to be in this position"

Maybe providing Matip with advice or communicating with Cameroon on his behalf, to suddenly withdraw him on sunday hours before the game suggests there was no pre-emptive action been taken.
Cameroon announced the squad in December with Matip in.
Liverpool - "Excuse Mr Matip I see you've been included in the squad"

Matip - "It's ok I've withdrawn"

LPool - "OK, Have you had a response from the Cameroon FA ?"

Matip - "Not yet or Yes"

LPool - "OK, keep us informed and let is know if we can help"

Etc etc,

 

[freddielong]

Please enlighten us into how the club could have handled it any different to "so they wouldn't be found to be in this position"

They could have ensured that Cameroon agreed that he wasn't eligible for selection months ago they could have easily had this locked down way before it became an issue, but of course you won't see that.

 

[Slime]

Go on then, give me the Man U version of refs decisions yesterday.

I havent called him a Man U fan BTW, just questioned his uneven decision making for very similar situations. Your version?

Maybe I'm not very good at irony!
The referee, in my unbiased opinion, favoured United .................... there, I've said it.
But isn't it generally the norm that the home side benefits from this?
It shouldn't be, but it is.
There will always be exceptions to the rule but, having watched United for decades, I find that they generally benefit from wrong decisions at Old Trafford, but this isn't necessarilly the case when playing away.
Oh, and don't forget, like most supporters, I do find it difficult to be impartial when discussing my own team :thup:.

 

[pokerjoke]

Bloody hell the way this is going you would have thought they lost Pele