And, we're off.....2016/17

[Lord Tyrion]

Local players and players born and bred within the club will care and they will be the ones that stay throughout their career and not jump when in their prime - Gerrard , Terry , Lampard , Carra , Neville , Scholes , Rooney

I just need to check this. Were you drinking when you added Rooney to this list? Why would you add Rooney to a list of players that stayed loyal to a club and didn't look to jump. Rooney moved through the Everton junior system and then jumped to Utd, anyone but Utd blimey. Every few years at Utd he threatens to leave until his contract is bumped up. Clear as you like, more money or I go. Rooney will retire and no fans will love him in the way they love the other players on your list. Incidentally, throw Alan Shearer into that mix. Ask him if he would swap titles with Utd for the years and adoration from his home support? He wouldn't blink in answering no. He is still worshipped for that loyalty, Rooney will not have that.

As a pro you make that choice, if you are lucky. It's a short career and it is up to each individual. 10-20-30 years after you are finished it must be pretty nice though, going back to your old club and having people happy to see you still. That has to be worth something more than just rattling around in your mansion counting your money.

 

[sawtooth]

The same opinion of Sol Campbell?

No why?! did he leave us in the lurch for more cash?

 

[sawtooth]

As usually you have an exception /get out clause for Liverpool, pathetic.

Yeah looks like Gerrard wasted his last 6-7 years of his best years at Liverpool.

He should have left to further his career? Is that what Liverpool supporters would have wanted? Not sure that it would have been.

 

[Kellfire]

No why?! did he leave us in the lurch for more cash?

Are you joking with this response?

 

[freddielong]

even though he got booted out of coaching the younger sides because of his Sky contract?

It wasn't felt that he could honestly express an opinion on a Saturday and then come in on a Monday and train the same players it was Henry's choice in the end.

 

[sawtooth]

Van Persie stays with Arsenal for years, no sign of a league title.

Leaves Arsenal, wins league the next year, scoring many vital goals in that success.

How can anyone argue that isn't the right thing he did?

Oh the big, bad Dutch man felt no great love for the London team, managed by a Frenchman...

It's not just leaving , it's the manner of leaving and what he said to press since leaving that sticks in the throat.

Fabregas and Henry left too but they left in a very different manner and have not been disrespectful to either Arsenal or Wenger.

 

[sawtooth]

Are you joking with this response?

No , are you denying that he left for a large signing on fee and much improved weekly wage?

Are you joking with your response?

Naive if you buy - I am leaving for trophies or for honours rubbish. Cold hard cash for an aging striker with one last payday is closer to the mark.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yeah looks like Gerrard wasted his last 6-7 years of his best years at Liverpool.

He should have left to further his career? Is that what Liverpool supporters would have wanted? Not sure that it would have been.

Im pretty sure even you can clearly see the difference between someone like Gerrard and someone like Van Persie

Van Persie had no deep routed connection to Arsenal so had no problems leaving to allow him to wins the major trophies

Gerrard won major trophies at Liverpool and yes he could have left to another club to win the league but he said it wouldn't have felt the same winning it with Chelsea for example

You will always believe Van Persie left for money - you will dismiss the idea that he wanted to win trophies and it wasn't ( and still doesn't ) happening at Arsenal - he took a chance to win a title and it paid if for him.

 

[Kellfire]

No , are you denying that he left for a large signing on fee and much improved weekly wage?

Are you joking with your response?

Naive if you buy - I am leaving for trophies or for honours rubbish. Cold hard cash for an aging striker with one last payday is closer to the mark.

At his stage in life he wanted for nothing. He had a cushy life in the capital city and money was certainly no issue for him.

I believe he wanted one last shot at a league and potentially Champions League title under the best manager the league has ever seen.

 

[pbrown7582]

No , are you denying that he left for a large signing on fee and much improved weekly wage?

Are you joking with your response?

Naive if you buy - I am leaving for trophies or for honours rubbish. Cold hard cash for an aging striker with one last payday is closer to the mark.

Same for Campbell amazing how it's different when the boots on the other foot.....

Also why is it footballers are supposed to stay loyal to the club and turn down a better job and more money? You work your apperenticeship become skilled the stay for the rest of your working life out of loyalty and turn down better paid jobs out of loyalty..... Real world!

 

[freddielong]

What does it matter when he won it - he won it , he has the medal
?!

How many times have you banged on about timescale for someone else or is it just because you know Arsene doesn't keep his medals.

You are a hypocrite

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How many times have you banged on about timescale for someone else or is it just because you know Arsene doesn't keep his medals.

You are a hypocrite

Who is talking about Wenger ? I have no idea if Wenger keeps his medals or not - it's not relevant to the discussion.

I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference between players gaining honours and clubs gaining honours

 

[Liverbirdie]

Completely agree with you about "legacy"!

Re Owen, I always find it interesting he was never really adopted by the supporters there as much as others, why was that? I played a lot against/with him when I was younger as we're the same age and he really was seen as the golden child both with club and country, got the impression they'd throw rose petals at his feet when he was going anywhere if he asked..... I obviously don't know enough about Liverpool to know why, thought it was odd though.

Not a criticism, just something I've always wondered really as he wasn't held in the same regard as Gerrard etc even before he left.

A good comparison is Robbie Fowler, Iain, and for many scouse reds they were seen as follows:-


Fowler

1.<script id="gpt-impl-0.41552671498338095" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_103.js"></script> Scouser from Toxteth (he went to my old junior school)
2. He was "ours" first and foremost.
3. He was a scorer of great goals as well as tap ins.
4. He was a jack the lad, and had a cheeky wit.
5. He was often seen around the town, going to his old school, supported the dockers strike, and lived in the city.

Owen.

1. He was a "wool".
2. After the goal against Argentina he was the England poster boy, and belonged to the world.
3. He was a scorer of some great goals, but more of a speed merchant/sniffer.
4. He was the clean cut, boy next door, but who also exploited a massive PR and advertising income.
5. Outside of training and playing, didn't see him around much.

None are necessarily criticisms, but how many reasons why me, mates and other lads I knew loved "God" a lot more than Michael. One left when we needed him, one left as he was not the player he previously was (Fowler), but he took it in good grace.

 

[sawtooth]

A good comparison is Robbie Fowler, Iain, and for many scouse reds they were seen as follows:-


Fowler

1.<script id="gpt-impl-0.41552671498338095" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_103.js"></script> Scouser from Toxteth (he went to my old junior school)
2. He was "ours" first and foremost.
3. He was a scorer of great goals as well as tap ins.
4. He was a jack the lad, and had a cheeky wit.
5. He was often seen around the town, going to his old school, supported the dockers strike, and lived in the city.

Owen.

1. He was a "wool".
2. After the goal against Argentina he was the England poster boy, and belonged to the world.
3. He was a scorer of some great goals, but more of a speed merchant/sniffer.
4. He was the clean cut, boy next door, but who also exploited a massive PR and advertising income.
5. Outside of training and playing, didn't see him around much.

None are necessarily criticisms, but how many reasons why me, mates and other lads I knew loved "God" a lot more than Michael. One left when we needed him, one left as he was not the player he previously was (Fowler), but he took it in good grace.

Forget all the rest this line tells me all so need to know.


Michael. One left when we needed him, .......and he went to Utd

No difference to RVP , had he had stayed Owen would be on the same pedestal as Fowler no doubt about it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Forget all the rest this line tells me all so need to know.


Michael. One left when we needed him, .......and he went to Utd

No difference to RVP , had he had stayed Owen would be on the same pedestal as Fowler no doubt about it.

Owen wouldn't have been on the same pedestal - he wasn't when he was a Liverpool player and he wouldn't have been if he stayed. Pete explained why Owen was seen differently and it appears you decided to ignore that

He also didn't go direct to Utd - went via Newcastle and Madrid - he wanted to come back to us from Madrid and Newcastle and we didn't want him and majority of the fans weren't bothered

 

[NWJocko]

A good comparison is Robbie Fowler, Iain, and for many scouse reds they were seen as follows:-


Fowler

1.<script id="gpt-impl-0.41552671498338095" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_103.js"></script> Scouser from Toxteth (he went to my old junior school)
2. He was "ours" first and foremost.
3. He was a scorer of great goals as well as tap ins.
4. He was a jack the lad, and had a cheeky wit.
5. He was often seen around the town, going to his old school, supported the dockers strike, and lived in the city.

Owen.

1. He was a "wool".
2. After the goal against Argentina he was the England poster boy, and belonged to the world.
3. He was a scorer of some great goals, but more of a speed merchant/sniffer.
4. He was the clean cut, boy next door, but who also exploited a massive PR and advertising income.
5. Outside of training and playing, didn't see him around much.

None are necessarily criticisms, but how many reasons why me, mates and other lads I knew loved "God" a lot more than Michael. One left when we needed him, one left as he was not the player he previously was (Fowler), but he took it in good grace.

Cheers Pedro. :thup:

Interesting comparison as Owen was very much "groomed for stardom" as the modern footaller so probably does become more distant whereas Fowler was a bit more old school.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'll throw into this as a neutral, Everton fan, with lots of Liverpool relations. Owen was never held in affection in the way that Fowler was. Owen just isn't a warm character. He was robotic in his interviews, too clinical in his answers, no feeling. Fowler (Gerrard, Carragher etc) all answered with passion and all related to Liverpool being central to everything. Owen left when it suited his career, clinical. He didn't wait to stick things out, he saw a chance to move and he took it. Fans don't like or want that. Fowler was sold on, he didn't want to leave the club. Huge difference.

I doubt you will find Owen is held in affection by any club fans, ask a Newcastle fan about Owen but stand well clear. Just not that type of person.

 

[freddielong]

Who is talking about Wenger ? I have no idea if Wenger keeps his medals or not - it's not relevant to the discussion.

I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference between players gaining honours and clubs gaining honours

You have to judge everyone by the same standards you have repeatedly banged on about Wenger being rubbish and passed it for not winning the title in 10 years but when a Liverpool player was involved as long as he has won it once the sun shines out his ring all all will be forgiven.

Hypocrite

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You have to judge everyone by the same standards you have repeatedly banged on about Wenger being rubbish and passed it for not winning the title in 10 years but when a Liverpool player was involved as long as he has won it once the sun shines out his ring all all will be forgiven.

Hypocrite

What ?

You do realise one is a manager and one is a player ?

One sets up the teams and is responsible for the way the team plays and how successful they are - the other plays the way the manager wants

What is this all is forgiven business - why do I need to forgive Gerrard ? He gave his all for the club and won us some great trophies and we had some great times with him as a player - when we didn't succeed as we should in his time the manager was sacked

Not once have a said Wenger is rubbish - right now I believe he is very lucky that despite not winning a major trophy for a big club in over a decade he is still in the job and believe he is the manager that is stopping Arsenal winning big trophies

How on any planet can you compare a manager to a player ? Do you even think before ranting away

 

[sawtooth]

What ?

You do realise one is a manager and one is a player ?

One sets up the teams and is responsible for the way the team plays and how successful they are - the other plays the way the manager wants

What is this all is forgiven business - why do I need to forgive Gerrard ? He gave his all for the club and won us some great trophies and we had some great times with him as a player - when we didn't succeed as we should in his time the manager was sacked

Not once have a said Wenger is rubbish - right now I believe he is very lucky that despite not winning a major trophy for a big club in over a decade he is still in the job and believe he is the manager that is stopping Arsenal winning big trophies

How on any planet can you compare a manager to a player ? Do you even think before ranting away

Lucky?

You really don't have a clue mate......or you are trolling.

The club are enormously lucky to have had Wenger. He has helped to pay off the stadium with his success and consistency as a manager for over a decade.

The lucky manager they are desperate to keep.