And, we're off.....2016/17

[sawtooth]

Sorry but you were talking about Wenger relishing the prospect of turning nothing into something and bargains - so why has he not moved on to a club to try that then ?

The other managers you mention - Pep and Maureen may spend money and work with great players but they also win trophies - they do what is required of them, they have no need to go to a Sunderland etc . Wenger spends money ( lots of it in the last 4 years ) to win nothing.

I ask the question - would Pep and Maureen have done better with Arsenal over the last five years with the same budget - for me yes , they both would have won the title with Arsenal IMO

Because his project is not finished at Arsenal. He over saw the most significant milestone in Arsenals history , a stadium move , and kept us competitive against the odds during those years. Now that is behind us we are spending more and we have a couple of FA Cups to show for that within the last few years.

We can't hope to financially match Utd, City or Chelsea but we are a darn site closer now then we ever would have been without Wenger.

You might not accept me talking sense, but you might understand it better coming from this man.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/kenny-dalglish-chelsea-vs-arsenal-4374157

 

[Deleted member 1740]

I don't think that I was ever extremely confident lol.

His trophy count stands up as one of the best yes but he has just so happened to have managed 3 of the most priveleged clubs in their respective countries .

This has nothing to do with Wenger and I don't know why people are quick to make comparisons. You are comparing apples and oranges anyway.

The debate is about Pep and would he be any good if he managed a smaller club with less money to spend.

What other Top managers have done what you've proposed in recent history?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Because his project is not finished at Arsenal. He over saw the most significant milestone in Arsenals history , a stadium move , and kept us competitive against the odds during those years. Now that is behind us we are spending more and we have a couple of FA Cups to show for that within the last few years.

We can't hope to financially match Utd, City or Chelsea but we are a darn site closer now then we ever would have been without Wenger.

You might not accept me talking sense, but you might understand it better coming from this man.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/kenny-dalglish-chelsea-vs-arsenal-4374157

Sorry but the financial excuse for not winning the league blown out of the water last year

The teams you mention - Utd , Chelsea and City all fell over last season giving Arsenal their best chance to win the title and again they failed whilst a team with a tenth of the budget of Arsenal won the title , whilst Arsenal celebrated being above Spurs

The project has been over a decade now and is it really any closer over the last 4 years since Wenger has been spending. He has spent money but each year goes by and it's the same holes , the same excuses with no change.

Pep and Mourinho and possibly Klopp would have IMO won the title with Arsenal in the last 4/5 years had they been at the helm with the same spending power.

Pep especially - to continuely hide behind others success based on finances gives you the perfect excuse each year. Sorry Leicester showed us all that doesn't weigh up anymore.

 

[Papas1982]

Fair point, but he's not the first, Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Klinnsmann etc also went into top jobs straight away, others have gone into very succesful sides and took them backwards.

Oh I agree. I don't think there's a right or wrong route into football. It's just that the pep route always leaves the possibility for discussion.

Muuch like some some use the fact Barca built around messi to question if he's better than Ronaldo or not.

 

[sawtooth]

Sorry but the financial excuse for not winning the league blown out of the water last year

The teams you mention - Utd , Chelsea and City all fell over last season giving Arsenal their best chance to win the title and again they failed whilst a team with a tenth of the budget of Arsenal won the title , whilst Arsenal celebrated being above Spurs

The project has been over a decade now and is it really any closer over the last 4 years since Wenger has been spending. He has spent money but each year goes by and it's the same holes , the same excuses with no change.

Pep and Mourinho and possibly Klopp would have IMO won the title with Arsenal in the last 4/5 years had they been at the helm with the same spending power.

Pep especially - to continuely hide behind others success based on finances gives you the perfect excuse each year. Sorry Leicester showed us all that doesn't weigh up anymore.

Well I will give you last season but it was a freak and we don't expect to see anything of the like again for another 50 yrs.

But with that said Wenger still achieved top 4 where other 'distinguished' managers did not. Klopp included, infact he didn't even make top 6.

I expect business as usual this season and the top 4 will most probably be ranked by financial might.

If Liverpool make top 4 then that would be an excellent achievement although you will probably be disappointed because you expect to win the league.

I don't think like that, as long as we play great football and we give it a real go then that's all I can ask for. I take nothing for granted when other teams are throwing money around like confetti. I hope that we can win the PL or CL - I don't expect it.

 

[sawtooth]

What other Top managers have done what you've proposed in recent history?

I can't think of any of the top of my head, it's a hypothetical situation. I don't see Pep going on to manage Bournemouth after this TBH. It doesn't really happen.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

I can't think of any of the top of my head, it's a hypothetical situation. I don't see Pep going on to manage Bournemouth after this TBH. It doesn't really happen.

Exactly, you want him to do something that never has been done, ( well, apart from Benitez whose currently the only manager to put his neck on the block,) just to prove how good of a manager he is? His record speaks for itself.

On your other snide dig about City spending over £1bn, how else would you have expect City or anybody else outside of the top 4 for that matter to achieve what they have to date?

You're very bitter towards clubs who have had a helping hand.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Sorry but the financial excuse for not winning the league blown out of the water last year

The teams you mention - Utd , Chelsea and City all fell over last season giving Arsenal their best chance to win the title and again they failed whilst a team with a tenth of the budget of Arsenal won the title , whilst Arsenal celebrated being above Spurs

The project has been over a decade now and is it really any closer over the last 4 years since Wenger has been spending. He has spent money but each year goes by and it's the same holes , the same excuses with no change.

Pep and Mourinho and possibly Klopp would have IMO won the title with Arsenal in the last 4/5 years had they been at the helm with the same spending power.

Pep especially - to continuely hide behind others success based on finances gives you the perfect excuse each year. Sorry Leicester showed us all that doesn't weigh up anymore.

Sorry Phil, agree with everything but, I know you said Possibly, the Klopp comment, he's not in the same league as Pep or Jose, maybe in time.
We know all about his record with Dortmund, but that's it. The other 2 have done it in different countries not one and they've won the CL, Ancellotti or Big Phil or even Pellegrini are worthy of a mention before him, not Klopp, not yet.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well I will give you last season but it was a freak and we don't expect to see anything of the like again for another 50 yrs.

But with that said Wenger still achieved top 4 where other 'distinguished' managers did not. Klopp included, infact he didn't even make top 6.

That just shows to me the lack of ambition - you should be livid that Arsenal didnt take advantage of the slip ups instead you are looking for "success" in finishing above certain other teams - hence the wild celebrations just finsihing above Spurs

I expect business as usual this season and the top 4 will most probably be ranked by financial might.

If Liverpool make top 4 then that would be an excellent achievement although you will probably be disappointed because you expect to win the league.

I don't think like that, as long as we play great football and we give it a real go then that's all I can ask for. I take nothing for granted when other teams are throwing money around like confetti. I hope that we can win the PL or CL - I don't expect it.

If we make top 4 i will be happy - excellent acheivement ? Nope there is no trophy so excellent it isnt, it should be used as a stepping stone to move further forward and challenge for trophies

And when did Arsenal last "give it a real go" ? 2006 for CL ? The league ? 2004 ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sorry Phil, agree with everything but, I know you said Possibly, the Klopp comment, he's not in the same league as Pep or Jose, maybe in time.
We know all about his record with Dortmund, but that's it. The other 2 have done it in different countries not one and they've won the CL, Ancellotti or Big Phil or even Pellegrini are worthy of a mention before him, not Klopp, not yet.

I wasnt rating Klopp alongside those managers ?

I just think he would have won the title for Arsenal if he was manager in the last 5 years

 

[Pin-seeker]

Exactly, you want him to do something that never has been done, ( well, apart from Benitez whose currently the only manager to put his neck on the block,) just to prove how good of a manager he is? His record speaks for itself.

On your other snide dig about City spending over £1bn, how else would you have expect City or anybody else outside of the top 4 for that matter to achieve what they have to date?

You're very bitter towards clubs who have had a helping hand.

Yes because spending £50m to get out of the Championship is the mark of a truly great manager 🙄

 

[Pin-seeker]

I wasnt rating Klopp alongside those managers ?

I just think he would have won the title for Arsenal if he was manager in the last 5 years

You must be buzzing to know that a Klopp will win the title with Liverpool in the next 5years then 😘

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Sorry Phil, agree with everything but, I know you said Possibly, the Klopp comment, he's not in the same league as Pep or Jose, maybe in time.
We know all about his record with Dortmund, but that's it. The other 2 have done it in different countries not one and they've won the CL, Ancellotti or Big Phil or even Pellegrini are worthy of a mention before him, not Klopp, not yet.

Is this the same big Phil that only lasted 4 months at Chelsea?:rofl: :rofl:

 

[Liverbirdie]

cant remember that long ago you mean there was football before sky and all seater stadia......

Yes, but I think it was when they had tape for a crossbar and the referees wore a suit.

Actually your old enough to remember Barnes, being better than Giggs.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Yes because spending £50m to get out of the Championship is the mark of a truly great manager 🙄

I never said he was a "truly great manager"

The championship isn't the easiest league to get out of and currently he's put his reputation on the block.

It's - £15m nett actually.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Is this the same big Phil that only lasted 4 months at Chelsea?:rofl: :rofl:

July 2008 - Feb 2009, My point is that he was a manager with international pedigree and way better than Klopp.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

July 2008 - Feb 2009, My point is that he was a manager with international pedigree and way better than Klopp.

But done nothing of note as a club manager ?

Not sure how you can compare Scolari to any club manager

 

[Deleted member 16999]

But done nothing of note as a club manager ?

Not sure how you can compare Scolari to any club manager

Because he comes with a pedigree, what are you basing Klopp winning the title with Arsenal on? The squad he'd inherit, the money he'd spend or a complete rebuild, as of now he's un-proven outside of Germany.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

July 2008 - Feb 2009, My point is that he was a manager with international pedigree and way better than Klopp.

What's 3 months between muckers Eh

Big Phil may be a good international manager but his club record is pretty rubbish, bit like Hodgson.........

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Because he comes with a pedigree, what are you basing Klopp winning the title with Arsenal on? The squad he'd inherit, the money he'd spend or a complete rebuild, as of now he's un-proven outside of Germany.

What pedigree ? Scolari took over a Chelsea team full of stars and had financial backing yet failed horribly


Klopp won two titles with an unfancied team in a league normally dominated by one team with the most financial muscle.

You cant call Klopp unproven yet suggest Scolari who has done nothing of note in European Club football has pedigree ?!?!