Aimpoint and Slowplay

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Simple question. Has anyone who has commented already ever had an Aimpoint lesson from an Aimpoint coach. I have been lucky enough to have been to two clinics run by Jamie Donaldson (fortunately not at the cost currently being advertised - indeed one was free) who is the European Lead and teaches anyone from club players to tour professionals. He teaches how to read putts and get back to the ball, use the number of fingers in relation to the slope and get over ball. He reckons a read over 15-20 seconds from reading the slope with the feet to seeing the line with fingers is about right. Anything else is too long and even he gets frustrated with how long some of these players are taking (and these are some he has taught).

It is a reliable method and SHOULD be quick. It is only coaches and the players themselves that are taking a simple process and making it over complicated. Much can be said about many facets of the game these days. Aimpoint SHOULD be quick, certainly more so that reading a putt from behind the ball and behind the hole, possibly with a look from the side which may tour players seem to do.

Aimpoint has always been divisive on here and I still find it funny that some knockers do so without the foggiest idea how to use it and how it should work and how long it should take. It isn't a magic bullet and if you don't start the ball on line and cannot judge pace no green reading method will help. It is simply a method for giving you a read that SHOUDL be quick and reliable. After that it is down to the player. For that sometimes you simply have to work on your stroke, start line and pace control and there are no short cuts
 
HomerJSimpson said:
Simple question. Has anyone who has commented already ever had an Aimpoint lesson from an Aimpoint coach. I have been lucky enough to have been to two clinics run by Jamie Donaldson (fortunately not at the cost currently being advertised - indeed one was free) who is the European Lead and teaches anyone from club players to tour professionals. He teaches how to read putts and get back to the ball, use the number of fingers in relation to the slope and get over ball. He reckons a read over 15-20 seconds from reading the slope with the feet to seeing the line with fingers is about right. Anything else is too long and even he gets frustrated with how long some of these players are taking (and these are some he has taught).

It is a reliable method and SHOULD be quick. It is only coaches and the players themselves that are taking a simple process and making it over complicated. Much can be said about many facets of the game these days. Aimpoint SHOULD be quick, certainly more so that reading a putt from behind the ball and behind the hole, possibly with a look from the side which may tour players seem to do.

Aimpoint has always been divisive on here and I still find it funny that some knockers do so without the foggiest idea how to use it and how it should work and how long it should take. It isn't a magic bullet and if you don't start the ball on line and cannot judge pace no green reading method will help. It is simply a method for giving you a read that SHOUDL be quick and reliable. After that it is down to the player. For that sometimes you simply have to work on your stroke, start line and pace control and there are no short cuts
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How many putts per round at 15-20 seconds each time? That soon adds up and it holds up others because you have to walk down the line so you can't really do it while others are putting. I can look at my line from behind the ball or the other side of the hole while others are putting without holding anyone up.
 
My only experience of it is that it's slow, seen a couple of yanks doing it who were slow and couldn't putt and one guy at my club does it who was slow to start with before taking it up in fact he once held up a 4 ball as a single on the course pre aim point 😂
 
as someone who uses Aimpoint...it really isn't slow. A few seconds to get a read, and honestly, after a while, you don't even need to use your fingers to find the aim location.
It's no quicker or slower than someone walking around a putt and viewing it from all angles
 
Thing is, slow play really should be the easiest problem to solve in professional golf. Simple shot clock on every shot, a set time to have played your shot from when the group reaches the first ball. As soon as the swing has been completed, the clock starts for player 2. That means you can use whatever techniques you like as long as you use them quickly. Wanted to refer to your little course book, fine but it eats into the clock, want to use aimpoint, fine but the same applies. Same rule applies to everyone and so everyone is equally rushed but we can move the game back to assessing the shot as you walk to the ball, selecting the club then hitting it rather than walk to the ball, spend 5 minutes discussing with your cadddy, another couple messing with clubs, no end of practice swings, maybe a club change, more swings then play.

Have a 3 strike rule, every 3 times you time out, you have a stroke added.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Just watching them. They both take an age walking around the green, looking from every angle. Have a look next time up. On anything other than a short one they are both very slow.
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With most players, the tv picture cuts to them just as they are about to putt so you don't see the full amount of time it takes. With Tiger, the cameras are usually focused on him permanently so we see him wandering around looking at the green while the others are putting. Can't miss a second of him on the course. Also, as already mentioned, Tiger moves really slowly these days. Whenever I've seen him live he's been no slower than other pros, admittedly it's been 10+ years since I last saw the big cat live.
 
GB72 said:
Thing is, slow play really should be the easiest problem to solve in professional golf. Simple shot clock on every shot, a set time to have played your shot from when the group reaches the first ball. As soon as the swing has been completed, the clock starts for player 2. That means you can use whatever techniques you like as long as you use them quickly. Wanted to refer to your little course book, fine but it eats into the clock, want to use aimpoint, fine but the same applies. Same rule applies to everyone and so everyone is equally rushed but we can move the game back to assessing the shot as you walk to the ball, selecting the club then hitting it rather than walk to the ball, spend 5 minutes discussing with your cadddy, another couple messing with clubs, no end of practice swings, maybe a club change, more swings then play.

Have a 3 strike rule, every 3 times you time out, you have a stroke added.
Click to expand...
Don't mind it, but maybe they should have a couple of 'get out cards' or 'lives' or whatever - for particularly difficult lies and situations that require a lot of thought or even a ruling.
 
GB72 said:
Thing is, slow play really should be the easiest problem to solve in professional golf. Simple shot clock on every shot, a set time to have played your shot from when the group reaches the first ball. As soon as the swing has been completed, the clock starts for player 2. That means you can use whatever techniques you like as long as you use them quickly. Wanted to refer to your little course book, fine but it eats into the clock, want to use aimpoint, fine but the same applies. Same rule applies to everyone and so everyone is equally rushed but we can move the game back to assessing the shot as you walk to the ball, selecting the club then hitting it rather than walk to the ball, spend 5 minutes discussing with your cadddy, another couple messing with clubs, no end of practice swings, maybe a club change, more swings then play.

Have a 3 strike rule, every 3 times you time out, you have a stroke added.
Click to expand...

Simple in theory, but then some players would slow down their walk to the ball, to give themselves extra time before the clock starts. Also is it fair that the second player effectively has twice as long as the first to assess their shot?

Also, for some shots they need to take longer, i.e. when they get out of position and have to play to/from a wrong fairway, through trees etc. These "miracle" recovery shots often take an age to weigh up all the options, but provide some of the best entertainment. Maybe every player gets up to 3 jokers each round where there is no shot clock.
 
sunshine said:
With most players, the tv picture cuts to them just as they are about to putt so you don't see the full amount of time it takes. With Tiger, the cameras are usually focused on him permanently so we see him wandering around looking at the green while the others are putting. Can't miss a second of him on the course. Also, as already mentioned, Tiger moves really slowly these days. Whenever I've seen him live he's been no slower than other pros, admittedly it's been 10+ years since I last saw the big cat live.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you are right in that the cameras stay on him whereas it doesn't for others. It is bound to stand out more for him whereas others can hide behind the director bouncing around other holes. It's a bit like Cantlay being noticed this week because he was in one of the final groups. Normally he play slowly and we don't see it. It doesn't change the fact that he is still slow though.
 
I'm sure they have a framework for time penalties in place anyway, they just hardly ever use it. It happens like twice a year, it's always against some youngster that no one's heard of rather than a notable player that they don't want to upset, and it's that rare it usually makes the news articles. Putting is a good place to start because you don't have the caveat of having a poor lie or a tricky shot, it's just line & speed and then hit - so anyone who takes over a certain amount of time should be getting a klaxon and a shot penalty or whatever is outlined.
 
Orikoru said:
I'm sure they have a framework for time penalties in place anyway, they just hardly ever use it. It happens like twice a year, it's always against some youngster that no one's heard of rather than a notable player that they don't want to upset, and it's that rare it usually makes the news articles. Putting is a good place to start because you don't have the caveat of having a poor lie or a tricky shot, it's just line & speed and then hit - so anyone who takes over a certain amount of time should be getting a klaxon and a shot penalty or whatever is outlined.
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I can see Harry Hill being up for Klaxon duty. Running up behind them and pressing the button as the clock reaches 0 :ROFLMAO:
 
sunshine said:
Simple in theory, but then some players would slow down their walk to the ball, to give themselves extra time before the clock starts. Also is it fair that the second player effectively has twice as long as the first to assess their shot?

Also, for some shots they need to take longer, i.e. when they get out of position and have to play to/from a wrong fairway, through trees etc. These "miracle" recovery shots often take an age to weigh up all the options, but provide some of the best entertainment. Maybe every player gets up to 3 jokers each round where there is no shot clock.
Click to expand...

True but a decent starting point from which more meat can be put on the bones. Sadly, despite the protestations, there is no appetite for change. Golfers only complain when it impacts them but are happy to keep the status quo most of the time. It really should not be difficult to sort out but nobody really seems to want to do it.
 
HomerJSimpson said:
Aimpoint has always been divisive on here and I still find it funny that some knockers do so without the foggiest idea how to use it and how it should work and how long it should take.
Click to expand...
I think it is unreasonable to expect aimpoint critics to know how to do it, to take their criticisms seriously. I would certainly accept that it can be done quickly, but the lack of any independent or objective scientific basis for it adding to one's green reading capability, is enough to question whether it brings anything more than just eyeing a line for 5 seconds. Who we can guess do know how it works, or claims to work, are any professional tour players. That all but a tiny minority dont use its suggest there is indeed nothing in it. So in that sense, any time at all spent on it, is time needlessly wasted. But would class it no worse nonetheless than aligning lines on balls, or dummy putts half way to the hole. Just needless affectations. The more there are of these gimmicks, the more time on the course is spent wasting time watching people waste their time.
 
Backsticks said:
I think it is unreasonable to expect aimpoint critics to know how to do it, to take their criticisms seriously. I would certainly accept that it can be done quickly, but the lack of any independent or objective scientific basis for it adding to one's green reading capability, is enough to question whether it brings anything more than just eyeing a line for 5 seconds. Who we can guess do know how it works, or claims to work, are any professional tour players. That all but a tiny minority dont use its suggest there is indeed nothing in it. So in that sense, any time at all spent on it, is time needlessly wasted. But would class it no worse nonetheless than aligning lines on balls, or dummy putts half way to the hole. Just needless affectations. The more there are of these gimmicks, the more time on the course is spent wasting time watching people waste their time.
Click to expand...

I do think that getting rid of any alignment aids on the ball would save more time than anything else you could do. That leaves the issue of identifying a ball though as someone would quickly use a mark they could align with
 
Patrick Cantlay

Paul McGinley to Butch Harmon when watching him on one green

something like

" I think you are confusing him with somebody who plays at a good pace"
 
Watching quite a few on the greens I think they should have a rule like they have for lift, clean and place.

The ball may only be lifted once and it is in play when placed on the green.
 
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