Backsticks
Assistant Pro
I think I would be in favour, in time of the non-removable flag. Same for all. No hokey kokey.
Advantages for the flag being left in / out ?
- Thread starter Bamberdele2.0
- Start date
Swango1980
Well-known member
I look at the hole just before I putt. However, as I strike the ball, I still have that vision of the hole in my mind. Even better when putting from about 2 to 10 feet, as you had been looking more downwards to the hole. Looks lots bigger with no flag in it.If it is such an obvious advantage to putt with the flag out, why would anybody putt with it in (well, accept for the folks who have trouble bending over)?
Personally, regardless of most articles being leave flag in, I've always considered it about 50-50. If you are convinced it's better to leave it in, you will likely feel better about your putting if you leave it in, and the opposite as well. It's a game of confidence.....if you are convinced you play better with old stinky socks....you better keep doing it
For those who claim taking the flag out makes the hole look a lot bigger.......I kind of get that....but are you looking at the hole when you putt, or the ball? I try to putt the ball on the line/direction I want....I'm not looking at the hole, so it's kind of irrelavent (to me....others disagree of course) how big the hole looks when I line it up.
If I leave flag in, I don't get that vision of a large hole to aim at anymore. I guess I start to doubt myself as I come to strike, and get a bit yippy. Or, maybe I am subconsciously trying to hit the ball to the part of the hole my mind sees, either side of the flag.
Anyway, for me I am significantly better with the flag out with those sorts of putts
theoneandonly
Blackballed
And the ones who leave it in?
Mandofred
Well-known member
It's a game of confidence. I've been playing so bad this week I just cancelled my tee time for today.....I've got a crappy attitude right now which will just lead to more crappy golf. Vicious cycle.
I think a lot of it is because it is what they have always done, Pavlov's dog at work. Equally, as someone has pointed out, they don't walk up to the hole, remove the flag, hold it, put it down etc. Some other person, caddy, does it so they don't care.
Personally, as long as you have the thinner pins, I don't think there is a jot of practical difference and so I leave it, speeds things up.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I usually have crap weekend. Then, during the week, have some sort of light bulb swing thought that makes me think I'll suddenly drive it like McIlroy, which makes me go back the next weekend. Only to play even worse then
The whole flag in flag out debate has no right answer. It is like "is it better to wear a glove, no glove or 2 gloves" , or "is a mallet or blade putter best" ,etc. We all have different swings and mentalities. For some, having the flag out will be best. For others it would be worse. Professional golfers are always looking for marginal gains, so you can bet they will soon do something if it helps them, rather than just stick to habit. Most have flag out, probably because of the way they visualise a putt and the hole. But, there are a few like Adam Scott who will leave it in, and so that must work best for him.
Mandofred
Well-known member
Have you got the skinny flags??? Oh...I love them. Played (badly) at Moor Allerton on Wed....they have the skinny bottom flags....awesome. Doesn't seem like it would be that big of a cost to buy for the club.....and it pretty well solves that issue of flags causing the ball to stay out.
Springveldt
Well-known member
Matt Fitzpatrick is the most analytical player on Tour who has tracked every shot he’s hit for years. He’s went to leaving the flag in, I wonder why that is?
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
D-S
Well-known member
Unless you are the sort of club that has issues with kids stealing pins or perhaps an ultra windy links, I can’t see why you wouldn’t have the pins with the slim bottom foot or so. They also have a locking system which holds them in place in the cup.
Seems like an absolute no brainer.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Because it works best for him
Mandofred
Well-known member
Heck, I'd be willing to chuck in an extra £5-10 if they were looking for extra money to buy that kind of flag.....maybe I'll bring that up.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I’ll stick to having the choice
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/th...-should-be-pulled-999-percent-of-the-time/amp
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/th...-should-be-pulled-999-percent-of-the-time/amp
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
Random irrational preference.
cliveb
Head Pro
This.
As Fred says, golf is a game of confidence. Whether you should have the flag in or out is fundamentally down to what you feel most comfortable with. The benefits of feeling good over a putt will have a greater bearing on results than what the flag might do to the ball.
Backsticks
Assistant Pro
Does the article put that in context though or am I missing it ? 99.9% of time doesnt indicate how beneficial it is to your putting. Its only half the story. It may help 99.9% of the time, but only making a holed/missed difference one in a million times, then we can still dismiss any flag in flag out difference as insignificant.
theoneandonly
Blackballed
99.9% of golfers would do better to spend some time on the putting green than worrying about flag in or out. That really would make a difference ?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Read the article ?
And you will never find a 100% answer and it’s down to personal preference
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I was taught to hit the back of the hole when putting.
With the flag in you can’t do that.
I think having a choice is best , you just have to be sensible about the order.
Let people with flag in putt first or last it’s not difficult.
With the flag in you can’t do that.
I think having a choice is best , you just have to be sensible about the order.
Let people with flag in putt first or last it’s not difficult.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Absolutely.Read the article ?
And you will never find a 100% answer and it’s down to personal preference
Whether the flag is in or not, the dimensions of the hole remain the same. So, there is no physical advantage to having the flag in, except that it may stop a ridiculously rapid putt that would have jumped over the hole if flag was not there. However, if this is the reason for having it left in for putts of about 2-20 feet, that player has much bigger putting problems than worrying about whether the flagstick is in or not. Even so, if it was the reason, the ball could just as easily bounce off the flagstick away from the hole, whereas it might have dropped in the fat part of the hole if the flag wasn't there.
So, there is no genuine physical advantage. It is purely mental and how we visualise our putting. Some like to see the full hole, others possibly like to focus on the pin itself. No global right answer that fits all. However, in a general context, I would say most would prefer the pin out. We can see that when the professionals putt, in that most have it out. Also, at least at my old and new clubs, the vast majority want the flag out, or at best they don't care enough so they'll just do what is easiest at any time. I think I've only played with 2 or 3 people in last few years who actually like the flag in. We also can't use the excuse "people only have it out due to habit". Not sure if anyone remembers Covid, but we had to play golf for a long time in which we were not allowed to remove the flag. Plenty of time to get used to it. Personally, I hated it, and over time my putting suffered. Once that restriction was lifted, I was overjoyed, get that flag out. And my putting improved again.
One other really annoying issue that can sometimes happen when leaving the flag in. Short putts on a very windy day, and having that flag flapping noisily near my face.
