Addressing rule breaking on the course

[swanny32]

6-7 o'clock would have been acceptable yesterday, this guy was literally putting his ball down a good 2 inches in front of his marker at times. I've message his next opponents to make them aware of it, I pulled him up on it so if it continues then I'll be informing the competition secretary.

 

[CMAC]

God I can sympathise with you on this. I played in my club champs this year and being one of the lowest players I was playing with a +1 19yr old kid who plays for Lincolnshire county team and he was marking his ball from the side placing his coin at 7oclock then replacing it back with the coin being at 6oclock. Not a lot gained but the ball is not in its original position, and normally I wouldn't of noticed but I had shot myself out of the comp and had noticed this breach on the back 9. I like you didn't say anything and over night couldn't get it out of my mind and the following day he won shooting 72 69 gross. The kid can play so why do it? More importantly why I didn't say anything? I have let it go but I will remember for next time I play him I will defiantly pull him up on it and if like your situation he's none plussed about it I will refuse to sign his card.

6 oclock and 7 oclock, seriously! how close were you!

 

[Vice]

By the sound of his attitude he probably wouldn't have stopped doing it anyway...

There is no doubt in my mind that it affected our concentration, really wish I'd said something when I first saw it.

 

[1948griff]

Have to say I have been guilty of that once, in ignorance (it was foursomes and hadn't paid attention to where my partner had marked), thankfully my opponent pointed it out!

 

[Doh]

I think it was Harvey (tomo) that pulled someone up. I would have no problem saying to the guy after seeing it for a second time.
"some people would have a issue they way your marking your ball, I don't but just be aware"

 

[swanny32]

I've alerted his next opponents and emailed the Captain about it.

 

[woody69]

I played in my very first comp a few weeks ago and ended up being the rules dictionary for one guy who played as he was constantly breaking little rules left right and centre, from picking up and placing balls out of the rough, to where to drop on water hazards to tapping down spike marks on his line whilst on the green, to using an iPhone as a DMD etc. I just tried to raise it in a friendly manner, i.e. "mate, the rules are quite clear that you can't pick and place unless you are on the fairway", " or, "it doesn't bother me, but you're not allowed to touch the line of your putt so don't tap down on it. Someone might get the hump" etc. Problem is by the end of the round he was still doing it for some things (but not others). He was obviously very nervous and I don't think he was doing all these things because he was deliberately trying to cheat, but after saying it a couple of times I just stopped bothering. I wasn't marking his score and the other competitor either didn't notice, or didn't care. Now in hindsight I wondered if I should have said more, or at least spoken to the comp sec.

 

[Wildrover]

The same thing happened to me and my partner as the OP in a club match, one of our opponents would mark his ball then replace it an inch or two nearer everytime. My partner an I both noticed it but weren't sure what to do as it was a friendly match and we didn't want to create an atmosphere. I still laugh now at what my partner did, he waited until the guy in question had a shortish putt, he did his usual marking routine and holed the putt, as we walked off the green he said to us "I thought you might have given me that" my partner quick as a flash replied "If you'd marked it again we would have". We had a laugh but the message got through as he didn't do it again.

 

[Snelly]

The same thing happened to me and my partner as the OP in a club match, one of our opponents would mark his ball then replace it an inch or two nearer everytime. My partner an I both noticed it but weren't sure what to do as it was a friendly match and we didn't want to create an atmosphere. I still laugh now at what my partner did, he waited until the guy in question had a shortish putt, he did his usual marking routine and holed the putt, as we walked off the green he said to us "I thought you might have given me that" my partner quick as a flash replied "If you'd marked it again we would have". We had a laugh but the message got through as he didn't do it again.

Similarly my Grandad once played a renown dodgy marker in a club knockout. On the 4th hole, the guy put his ball down a good 2 inches nearer the hole and then said it wasn't quite lined up how he liked it and moved towards it to mark it again so he could adjust the ball. At this point my Grandad said, "If you mark that ball again, I am going to give you the putt."

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I've alerted his next opponents and emailed the Captain about it.

As a committee member and your club easily identified by your moniker I do not think a public forum is the right place to be airing your concerns.

 

[davidy233]

Having done several years on the handicap committee at my previous club I learned that you should always pull someone on these sort of things straight away, people make mistakes and are usually happy to correct them whether a genuine mistake or them being caught cheating.

First time he did it you might have assumed it was by accident and if you'd pointed it out then you are giving him a chance to fix it and no harm done. You could have done that at any of the subsequent times he did it - and given him a chance to stop cheating without any major embarrassment.

As it was you let him ruin your chances and then told him afterwards that you had seen what he'd been doing - massive difference in perception - he's now publicly labled a a cheat (as he seems to be) - that's a major thing at a golf club.

Pull the guy straight away and he's got a chance to correct a genuine mistake or mend his ways - and you might have upset him enough that you won.

Did he deny it by the way or was he just 'not bothered' as you said in the original post?

 

[davidy233]

As a committee member and your club easily identified by your moniker I do not think a public forum is the right place to be airing your concerns.

100% agree with this

 

[3565]

Hmm - 6 - 7o'clock?

Not sure that there is enough in that to know for sure that he is doing anything wrong. I'd be treading really carefully on that example.

Rule 20-1 a part quote;

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Note: The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball. If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side.

I'm sure as a golf player that you adhere to the rules of golf, and it states as above behind the ball. If marking it at 5 or 7 o'clock is being pedantic to the rules then I'm sorry for that but it does clearly state behind, and not to the sides of any deviation.

As for how close I was to seeing this breach I was replacing my ball for my putt and as his ball ended up just off my line and 5ft away, I'm sure my eyesight is good enough to see that far and thought it odd when he marked his ball.

[/FONT]

 

[Robobum]

Rule 20-1 a part quote;

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Note: The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball. If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side.

I'm sure as a golf player that you adhere to the rules of golf, and it states as above behind the ball. If marking it at 5 or 7 o'clock is being pedantic to the rules then I'm sorry for that but it does clearly state behind, and not to the sides of any deviation.

As for how close I was to seeing this breach I was replacing my ball for my putt and as his ball ended up just off my line and 5ft away, I'm sure my eyesight is good enough to see that far and thought it odd when he marked his ball.

[/FONT]

I'm happy to be corrected, but the key word is SHOULD. It is not MUST.

I don't see how you can ensure that it is 100% in line, directly behind the ball.

That said, if you are happy that there was a definite difference in marking and replacing then absolutely bring it up.

 

[rosecott]

Rule 20-1 a part quote;

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Note: The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball. If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side.

I'm sure as a golf player that you adhere to the rules of golf, and it states as above behind the ball. If marking it at 5 or 7 o'clock is being pedantic to the rules then I'm sorry for that but it does clearly state behind, and not to the sides of any deviation.

As for how close I was to seeing this breach I was replacing my ball for my putt and as his ball ended up just off my line and 5ft away, I'm sure my eyesight is good enough to see that far and thought it odd when he marked his ball.

[/FONT]

I'm happy to be corrected, but the key word is SHOULD. It is not MUST.

I don't see how you can ensure that it is 100% in line, directly behind the ball.

That said, if you are happy that there was a definite difference in marking and replacing then absolutely bring it up.

As Robobum says. the rules state "should" and is therefore saying that it is not the only way it can be done. The important point is that, whatever method of marking is used, that process must be reversed when replacing so that the exact original spot is where the ball ends up.

 

[3565]

I'm happy to be corrected, but the key word is SHOULD. It is not MUST.

I don't see how you can ensure that it is 100% in line, directly behind the ball.

That said, if you are happy that there was a definite difference in marking and replacing then absolutely bring it up.

im not having a go at you in anyway, and maybe I'm being harsh on him and he doesn't realise what he's doing and needs to be pointed out to him but he did it on several occasions, and other players have noticed his dubious marking!

As for the 'should' I think that is referring to the preferred way of marking by coin, although you can use tee peg, pitch mark repairer or any other implement, but the word immediately is a more precise action.

 

[rosecott]

im not having a go at you in anyway, and maybe I'm being harsh on him and he doesn't realise what he's doing and needs to be pointed out to him but he did it on several occasions, and other players have noticed his dubious marking!

As for the 'should' I think that is referring to the preferred way of marking by coin, although you can use tee peg, pitch mark repairer or any other implement, but the word immediately is a more precise action.

Q. When marking the position of a ball, must the ball-marker be placed behind the ball, or may it also be placed to the side of or in front of the ball?
A. There is no restriction. However, if a player positions his ball-marker in front of the ball on the putting green and in the process does something to the green that improves the line of putt (e.g., presses down a raised tuft of grass), he is in breach of Rule 13-2.
Placing a ball-marker in front of the ball is not recommended but it is not a breach of Rule 16-1a because this Rule permits touching the line of putt in lifting a ball, and marking the position of the ball is part of the lifting process. (Revised)

 

[Robobum]

im not having a go at you in anyway, and maybe I'm being harsh on him and he doesn't realise what he's doing and needs to be pointed out to him but he did it on several occasions, and other players have noticed his dubious marking!

As for the 'should' I think that is referring to the preferred way of marking by coin, although you can use tee peg, pitch mark repairer or any other implement, but the word immediately is a more precise action.

I never took it that way mate, no probs.

Just to fire it back to you - what tolerance would you allow for "immediately"? Touching? 1/2mm?.............can you replicate that every time?

 

[3565]

I never took it that way mate, no probs.

Just to fire it back to you - what tolerance would you allow for "immediately"? Touching? 1/2mm?.............can you replicate that every time?

That's hard to police really and you trust the player to do it fairly. But like someone posted you must replace the ball to its original or close as to its original position as possible. If you Mark it at 3 or 9 o'clock, then fine so long as you place it back in the same position. We are talking mm's, but to even alter the original position and line of the putt like he did, is not on. But I will say that you have to be aware that if you approach the issue the accuser can come out of it a lot worse then the accused!

 

[Robobum]

That's hard to police really and you trust the player to do it fairly. But like someone posted you must replace the ball to its original or close as to its original position as possible. If you Mark it at 3 or 9 o'clock, then fine so long as you place it back in the same position. We are talking mm's, but to even alter the original position and line of the putt like he did, is not on. But I will say that you have to be aware that if you approach the issue the accuser can come out of it a lot worse then the accused!

I agree totally, which is why I said I'd tread really carefully in the first reply - the difference between 6 & 7 oclock would be pretty small (in my minds eye) and a big step away from 6 & 9 oclock IMO.

I can 100% guarantee that I will have marked a ball as per the guy in your example. Absolutely no intention of breaking a rule or gaining an advantage - just the way I approach the ball on that occasion