Addressing rule breaking on the course

[swanny32]

As a committee member and your club easily identified by your moniker I do not think a public forum is the right place to be airing your concerns.

Isn't that what a forum is for? Stop trolling.

 

[3565]

I agree totally, which is why I said I'd tread really carefully in the first reply - the difference between 6 & 7 oclock would be pretty small (in my minds eye) and a big step away from 6 & 9 oclock IMO.

I can 100% guarantee that I will have marked a ball as per the guy in your example. Absolutely no intention of breaking a rule or gaining an advantage - just the way I approach the ball on that occasion

i can see your point, and yes it's very marginal to say the least and possibly pedantic, but as a player your responsible for your own actions and awareness of other players on the green. We all have one goal in mind and that is the hole, so players if approaching from the side and not behind the ball have to be aware of their positioning and placing of the marker, it's not hard. The thing is is that you as a player are aware of what your doing, we have at some point teed our ball up inline with the tee marker in front then subconsciously we think am I inline with the one behind? If I marked my ball and found out once lifted that I had not placed my marker down properly behind the ball in line with the hole, I would readdress that, as I don't want someone accusing me of gaining an advantage or cheating as that stigma stays with you forever.

 

[One Planer]

didn't someone get banned from The european tour for doing just what was discribed here?

Elliot Saltman?

 

[woody69]

Isn't that what a forum is for? Stop trolling.

I think you need to look up the definition of trolling.

Doon is merely giving you an opinion as to why it might not be a good idea to air your grievances.

 

[virtuocity]

Isn't that what a forum is for? Stop trolling.

Do you think your club would be happy to see you advertising the fact that there is a problem with cheating at your club?

 

[Robobum]

............. as that stigma stays with you forever.

Absolutely.

Which, again, is why I would tread very carefully in your example. I'd need to be 100% sure that he was doing it incorrectly and, as I'm trying to picture the situation, I'm not convinced that the marker positioning is that far out. But then, you were there so will know exactly how big the difference was.

Your point is one that we should all keep in mind though - that stigma does stick - so being absolutely cast iron positive that something has gone on is a must before brining it up.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Isn't that what a forum is for? Stop trolling.

Oh dear!
I was just trying to offer some honest advice based on 40 years of committee experience.
I guess you missed the point.
I wonder what the two fellow members that you represent think of this.

 

[swanny32]

Oh dear!
I was just trying to offer some honest advice based on 40 years of committee experience.
I guess you missed the point.
I wonder what the two fellow members that you represent think of this.

Jesus, all I was asking was how people would address the issue out on the course as I struggled to think of a way to do it yesterday without creating an atmosphere or making it seem like sour grapes.

 

[Foxholer]

In my very first Match, my rule breach when marking (removing the marker, then rotating to line up) was quite correctly pointed out and, also done the correct way, ignored. In Matchplay, a breach can be ignored, then pointed out once the result of the hole is complete. In this case, it was diplomatically pointed out as we wandered down the Fairway of the next hole.

So that's also the way I'd deal with a Matchplay incident - that I was certain of.

In Stroke-Play there's a responsibility to sort it out. I've been much less diplomatic (something that is much more natural) about pointing it out!

Btw. The 'Should' as opposed to 'Must' in the rule is very significant. Bryan Barnes used beer cans to mark in one a round of one tournament

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Some interesting if heated points on here. I sympathise with the OP and can understand how it would nag away. But, as others have said, the potential for others at the club to see it and therefore make assumptions (innocent until proven guilty and all that) makes it a dangerous thing to air in public. It has to be proven without doubt and reading what has been posted I still remain unconvinced.

Ball marking is a contentious issue and I've seen a number of "dodgy" marks in matches, comps and friendlies. It is still a really tough thing to pull up in the heat of the moment especially if other players are unsure. At our level, and I may get murdered for this, for the sake of a few mm is it worth all the potential grief and divisions, accusations and grief when it gets out in the 19th for what is at the end of the day a past time. Unless I and my partners were 100% convinced and the distance became centimetres or inches then I'm not sure about raising it

 

[davidy233]

All Doon fae Troon did was point out it's not the best idea to post accusations of cheating on an internet forum - A member at one of Britain's poshest clubs is currently being sued by another member for saying in an email that the guy cheated at golf.

I don't know you at all but it took me two minutes to find out who you were, what you do on your committee and who your partner and opponents were - what if someone who knows them sees this thread and does the same.

As to what you do in that situation? - you deal with it at the time - that's obvious

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Jesus, all I was asking was how people would address the issue out on the course as I struggled to think of a way to do it yesterday without creating an atmosphere or making it seem like sour grapes.

You seem to be a bit braver on t'internet than on the golf course then.

 

[chrisd]

You seem to be a bit braver on t'internet than on the golf course then.

To be fair Doon, Swanny's a real decent guy and probably hasn't thought through the ramifications of forum posting. I think Mike Harris, (you know as Sweet Cheeks), posted a comment a little while ago about liability for comments posted. It's not everyone who knows the legalities and I'm sure he would have posted in a different way had he realised.

 

[JustOne]

As a committee member and your club easily identified by your moniker I do not think a public forum is the right place to be airing your concerns.

I don't agree - he's not named the person so where he plays is of little consequence.

I play at Ifield in Crawley and some people cheat there... I've seen it for myself. I have no bones in mentioning it on the internet. I have corrected a lot of players during the course of a round, sometimes to the point that people won't even go near their ball until they've asked me for their options, AND..... they've thanked me at the end of the round!

Although it must be said, some people there don't cheat :whoo:

 

[Slab]

The R&A say replace ball on the 'exact spot', the reality is we don't use equipment anywhere near accurate enough for this to happen without dumb luck, meaning the majority of balls are replaced pretty close based on best efforts

So the only question now is what distance/margin of error is any one player happy to accept for themselves and their fellow competitors, 1mm, 5mm, 10mm, more?

I guess I'm saying I'd mention it as a breach to an FC at the point I believed an advantage had been gained from the new position of the ball

 

[Doon frae Troon]

As to what you do in that situation? - you deal with it at the time - that's obvious

On leaving the green I would tell the guy that he needs to be more careful as to how he marks his ball.

If he reacts badly just say that some golfers may view his actions as gaining advantage.

Telling off and being neutral at the same time.

That's all.

 

[Tommo21]

Had an issue that occurred yesterday that I'm feeling a bit bitter about.

Winter league match against a couple of newish members (6/7 months they've been at the club). We started on the 10th.
Get to the 14th and we're 2up and cruising, bar a very unlucky lip out on the 13th we'd have been 3up.

My par putt on 14 was conceded, they had a couple of 10+ foot putts for a half. I stood back and watched intently and noticed that the chap in question marked his ball to the right with a tee..he cleaned the ball and then when it was his turn to putt he put the ball down in front of the marker. I didn't say anything and probably should have, although easy to say that now.

I mentioned it to my partner as something to look out for and we continued, eventually getting dragged into a bit of a scrap as the bloke in question decided to start playing golf and was stiffing approach shots left right and centre.

As the round went on, we counted at least 5 times that he would mark his ball by pushing the marker as close to the ball as possible and then replacing his ball a good 1-2 inches in front of the marker. To avoid any awkwardness we didn't say anything, also we figured what's an inch going to do?? It was obviously beginning to get to us more than it should have done and by the time I was ready to have a word with him we were 3 down and struggling to stay in the game and felt like it was too late and also that if we said anything then it might be taken as "sour grapes". A few holes we noticed his not so legitimate ball marking they actually won as well.

We eventually went down 5&3, were frustrated and annoyed that we'd lost to essentially a cheat and annoyed a bit that we hadn't said anything to him earlier.

When we got inside for a drink, I pulled him up on it and his attitude towards what I was telling him was very very much a "not bothered" attitude.

How would people have approached this on the course?

In a medal, I would not sign his card and I've done that before. In match play claim the hole, no messing. Sorry mate, people get away with this because others don't want to say anythng. WHY. I had to tell a guy only a couple of weeks ago that he cant stand behind me to watch my putt...only after I hit the ball can he come in. Because he didn't know he thought that made it okay.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

In a medal, I would not sign his card and I've done that before. In match play claim the hole, no messing. Sorry mate, people get away with this because others don't want to say anythng. WHY. I had to tell a guy only a couple of weeks ago that he cant stand behind me to watch my putt...only after I hit the ball can he come in. Because he didn't know he thought that made it okay.

Going off topic a bit...While this may be annoying, there isn't actually a rule that says he can't do it and there is no penalty if he does so. All you can do is ask him not to stand there. If he continues to do so the best you can do is get him penalised for serious breach of etiquette, but telling him he can't stand behind is wrong. The only rule that covers this is the one that prevents caddies or partners standing on the line, but it says nothing about FCs\opponents.

I am of course being picky as I wouldn't do it and would hope no-one would.

 

[Region3]

I had to tell a guy only a couple of weeks ago that he cant stand behind me to watch my putt...only after I hit the ball can he come in. Because he didn't know he thought that made it okay.

Unless he is on your team, there is no rule preventing him from standing behind the line of your putt.

You can ask him to move and if he refuses is breaching etiquette, but no actual rule that I know of.

 

[Region3]

Going off topic a bit...While this may be annoying, there isn't actually a rule that says he can't do it and there is no penalty if he does so. All you can do is ask him not to stand there. If he continues to do so the best you can do is get him penalised for serious breach of etiquette, but telling him he can't stand behind is wrong. The only rule that covers this is the one that prevents caddies or partners standing on the line, but it says nothing about FCs\opponents.

I am of course being picky as I wouldn't do it and would hope no-one would.

Beat me to it!