Addressing rule breaking on the course

[Deleted member 17920]

when we played st annes old links recently in the north west gm winter links oom, I queried could I move the ball out of the hollow tinned depression as we were playing with a lift clean and place rule. no one knew so at least two putts that day were hit with the ball in a small hole. as expected the ball jumped into the air on impact.

common sense should be for all hallow tinned greens 6inch placement no nearer the hole. 6 inches is not needed, only about 1 is necessary.

Not 100% knowing but that must count as greenkeepers workings and therefore must be able to move to one side.

 

[duncan mackie]

drawing someone's attention to a possible rule infringment with appropriate words, at the appropriate time, isn't accusing them of cheating, as other's have posted.

in saying nothing until you refuse to sign their card, tell them later, tell everyone else, tell the committee you are certainly likely to cause many of the issues you raise.

as to your last point - I have seen quite the opposite in practice. clubs are concerned that the right people remain as members![/QUOTE]

To the accused it will be though especially if they are doing it on purpose. i.e cheating
With regards to the clubs you area may well be different. Where I am based they will hold onto any members good or bad as it is income and seen as a necessary evil. I know of one chap who has had more warnings and written letters from the club about various matters but is still a member. The club are just being seen to do the right thing that is all when they have no intention to lose a member.

we appear to be at cross purposes - where I am based it's the other members who would leave if things weren't dealt with.

 

[duncan mackie]

Not 100% knowing but that must count as greenkeepers workings and therefore must be able to move to one side.

nope - there is a specific LR that should be implemented in such situation (it's in the Appendix of specimen LRs) so with it you have relief, without it you don't.

 

[In_The_Rough]

we appear to be at cross purposes - where I am based it's the other members who would leave if things weren't dealt with.

Right!! Would not happen where I am based though as there are not that many courses nearby and the ones that are an awful lot more expensive

 

[Tommo21]

I don’t want to go over old ground but I refused to sign a guys card because he was marking his ball one way and replacing a different way. No grey area here, the guy was at it, didn't deny or offer an explanation except to say he’s never been called a cheat before. I said to him Ill leave that to you, but I’m not signing it. I waited a long while into the round, because I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I had to be sure, double sure, triple sure and I wasn’t always in the position to see what was happening on every occasion. I was there to play golf not stand over a guy, a cat 1 golfer, to tell him how he should mark and replace his ball.

Anyone who’s happy to allow this then fine, but I know the guy who thought he won it didn’t. He would have won lowest gross, HC and money for a 2, He didn’t win it because he broke the rules time after time….and he knew it alright.

 

[3565]

I don’t want to go over old ground but I refused to sign a guys card because he was marking his ball one way and replacing a different way. No grey area here, the guy was at it, didn't deny or offer an explanation except to say he’s never been called a cheat before. I said to him Ill leave that to you, but I’m not signing it. I waited a long while into the round, because I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I had to be sure, double sure, triple sure and I wasn’t always in the position to see what was happening on every occasion. I was there to play golf not stand over a guy, a cat 1 golfer, to tell him how he should mark and replace his ball.

Anyone who’s happy to allow this then fine, but I know the guy who thought he won it didn’t. He would have won lowest gross, HC and money for a 2, He didn’t win it because he broke the rules time after time….and he knew it alright.

I posted earlier bout a similar Position as yourself but he was +1 hc player, but I never said anything as I was having my own woes on the course and spotted his indiscretion mid way thru back 9 but it prayed on my mind most of the night and next morning for 2nd round of club champs, which he won shooting 72 69 gross.

But these players don't realise that their indiscretions whether conscious or not put you in a very precarious position as you have to be 100% certain in what you saw before you tackle the situation.

Another situation arouse when a 16yr old in a county scratch event grounded his putter half way down his line and did a practise stroke. I let him putt out then as he walked off the green I had a quiet word told him that he couldn't ground his club on the line of his putt, but if he hovered it that would be ok. I didn't make it a big deal and said but someone could as your a junior go to town on you. Give him his due he took heed did his routine but hovered his putter.

In situations like we've seen on this thread, the accuser can come out worse then the accused!

 

[garyinderry]

nope - there is a specific LR that should be implemented in such situation (it's in the Appendix of specimen LRs) so with it you have relief, without it you don't.

cool. next time I see a practice green with those holes I will ask in the shop! it makes a mockery of putting in those situations. its bad enough putting over them, never mind out of them.

 

[duncan mackie]

cool. next time I see a practice green with those holes I will ask in the shop! it makes a mockery of putting in those situations. its bad enough putting over them, never mind out of them.

indeed

from the Appendix -

"d. Aeration Holes

When a course has been aerated, a Local Rule permitting relief, without penalty, from an aeration hole may be warranted. The following Local Rule is recommended:

“Through the green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be lifted, without penalty, cleaned and dropped, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.

On the putting green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be placed at the nearest spot not nearer the hole that avoids the situation.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:

Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.”

 

[Deleted member 17920]

indeed

from the Appendix -

"d. Aeration Holes

When a course has been aerated, a Local Rule permitting relief, without penalty, from an aeration hole may be warranted. The following Local Rule is recommended:

“Through the green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be lifted, without penalty, cleaned and dropped, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.

On the putting green, a ball that comes to rest in or on an aeration hole may be placed at the nearest spot not nearer the hole that avoids the situation.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:

Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.”

Thanks for that, you learn something new every day. If you see the putting green has had work done then ask in the shop.

 

[chrisd]

Another situation arouse when a 16yr old in a county scratch event grounded his putter half way down his line and did a practise stroke. I let him putt out then as he walked off the green I had a quiet word told him that he couldn't ground his club on the line of his putt, but if he hovered it that would be ok. I didn't make it a big deal and said but someone could as your a junior go to town on you. Give him his due he took heed did his routine but hovered his putter.

He is quite entitled to ground his putter on the line so long as he doesn't press anything down. Lots of players do this in front of or their ball and then go behind it and hit the ball

 

[rosecott]

Another situation arouse when a 16yr old in a county scratch event grounded his putter half way down his line and did a practise stroke. I let him putt out then as he walked off the green I had a quiet word told him that he couldn't ground his club on the line of his putt, but if he hovered it that would be ok. I didn't make it a big deal and said but someone could as your a junior go to town on you. Give him his due he took heed did his routine but hovered his putter.

He is quite entitled to ground his putter on the line so long as he doesn't press anything down. Lots of players do this in front of or their ball and then go behind it and hit the ball

In my reading of the situation described, the lad was not addressing the ball. He was going through his routine prior to addressing the ball and was therefore in breach of the rule by grounding his club on the line.

16-1. General
a. Touching Line of Putt
The line of putt must not be touched except:
(i) the player may remove loose impediments, provided he does not press anything down;
(ii) the player may place the club in front of the ball when addressing it, provided he does not press anything down;