Addressing rule breaking on the course

[swanny32]

Had an issue that occurred yesterday that I'm feeling a bit bitter about.

Winter league match against a couple of newish members (6/7 months they've been at the club). We started on the 10th.
Get to the 14th and we're 2up and cruising, bar a very unlucky lip out on the 13th we'd have been 3up.

My par putt on 14 was conceded, they had a couple of 10+ foot putts for a half. I stood back and watched intently and noticed that the chap in question marked his ball to the right with a tee..he cleaned the ball and then when it was his turn to putt he put the ball down in front of the marker. I didn't say anything and probably should have, although easy to say that now.

I mentioned it to my partner as something to look out for and we continued, eventually getting dragged into a bit of a scrap as the bloke in question decided to start playing golf and was stiffing approach shots left right and centre.

As the round went on, we counted at least 5 times that he would mark his ball by pushing the marker as close to the ball as possible and then replacing his ball a good 1-2 inches in front of the marker. To avoid any awkwardness we didn't say anything, also we figured what's an inch going to do?? It was obviously beginning to get to us more than it should have done and by the time I was ready to have a word with him we were 3 down and struggling to stay in the game and felt like it was too late and also that if we said anything then it might be taken as "sour grapes". A few holes we noticed his not so legitimate ball marking they actually won as well.

We eventually went down 5&3, were frustrated and annoyed that we'd lost to essentially a cheat and annoyed a bit that we hadn't said anything to him earlier.

When we got inside for a drink, I pulled him up on it and his attitude towards what I was telling him was very very much a "not bothered" attitude.

How would people have approached this on the course?

 

[Birchy]

A fella on here pulled somebody up on this once iirc. Cant remember his name.

On the course I would of liked to think I would confront him but I cant say I definitely would until I was in the situation I suppose.

Best thing you could of done bar confronting him was at least try ignore it and not let it get to you.

Sure you will learn from this experience though :thup:

 

[Robobum]

First off, I'd need to be beyond any shadow of a doubt as to what was being done - if I had any doubts (even the tiniest) I would not say anything.

If I did see it, I'd bring it up at the time I see it happening. In the OP example - I'd say something like "just be careful how you are marking the ball there mate"

If it was just a friendly knock, I'd mention it whilst leaving the green or walking between shots "you know someone might pull you up on marking your ball like that if it was in a comp?"- They might not even know, after all, if you look at it logically - what difference does an inch make in a 20 square mile field?

 

[pokerjoke]

This is a difficult one as I have seen it done on numerous occasions.
As has been pointed out by yourself "whats an inch".
I think you let it get to you,as im sure you didn't lose because he was wrongly marking.
I would say to anyone that comes up against rule breaking,its better to nip it
in the bud early than let it fester.

 

[swanny32]

That was my thinking at the time, an inch isn't going to make any difference, but my lipped out putt on the 13th, if that was an inch closer to the hole it probably would have dropped. Also, if he marks the ball to the right and then places the ball in front of the maker then he's changed his line, I didn't look at the time but this could have been done intentionally to avoid spike marks etc.

You can see this has bothered me for the last 24 hours now.

I have learnt from this, next time I'll pull the person up on it for sure. There was no doubt in my mind that he was doing it, I saw him do it on at least 5 occasions. I think it was his attitude afterwards that wound me up. No apology or remorse shown what so ever.

 

[pokerjoke]

In general cheats don't do remorse otherwise they would not do it.
Serious question what sort of length putt are we talking about here.
Im certainly not condoning what hes done,but you showing how much it has affected you
shows how much it affected the game.
A lesson learned mate,pull them up next time.

 

[guest100718]

You should have pulled him up on it straight away. I would have, no room for cheats. Elliot Satlman was banned for doing the same thing.

 

[swanny32]

In general cheats don't do remorse otherwise they would not do it.
Serious question what sort of length putt are we talking about here.
Im certainly not condoning what hes done,but you showing how much it has affected you
shows how much it affected the game.
A lesson learned mate,pull them up next time.

I saw him do it on a couple of long putts and a couple of shorter putts as well.

 

[patricks148]

didn't someone get banned from The european tour for doing just what was discribed here?

 

[Deleted member 17920]

Its a real shame that's it bothered you like it has.

Some golfers play the game to the letter and some just know very basic rules and I suspect your opponent was in the latter.

If in the same situation and I felt it was bothering me I would have just said after the second time of seeing it "can you put the ball back where you marked it as you are supposed to do"!

I did do this to someone a few years ago as it really irritated a lot of people in the club so I asked to be put with him as I was the only one prepared to say it whilst on the course. He did it once and then a second time and I just had a word before he putted and told him to put the ball back, he did replace the ball and never did it again that day :thup:

 

[swanny32]

There is no doubt in my mind that it affected our concentration, really wish I'd said something when I first saw it.

 

[swanny32]

Its a real shame that's it bothered you like it has.

Some golfers play the game to the letter and some just know very basic rules and I suspect your opponent was in the latter.

If in the same situation and I felt it was bothering me I would have just said after the second time of seeing it "can you put the ball back where you marked it as you are supposed to do"!

I did do this to someone a few years ago as it really irritated a lot of people in the club so I asked to be put with him as I was the only one prepared to say it whilst on the course. He did it once and then a second time and I just had a word before he putted and told him to put the ball back, he did replace the ball and never did it again that day :thup:

I need to grow a pair and start pulling people up on things, I felt as a committee member I should have said something so did so after the round was over. For my own sanity and possibly 3 points in the winter league, I should have said something earlier. My fault.

 

[Robobum]

I need to grow a pair and start pulling people up on things, I felt as a committee member I should have said something so did so after the round was over. For my own sanity and possibly 3 points in the winter league, I should have said something earlier. My fault.

Not trying to over egg this pudding, but you are also acting for all the other players in that comp too. Not only have they [maybe] done you out of points but it [may] also impact on the final outcome of any league or further matches.

Similar scenario in strokeplay comp - you may see him and NR but he may pip someone to the win by one shot because of his liberal attitude to marking.

 

[medwayjon]

I used to do something dodgy that smiffy pulled me up on, was completely innocent and would only account for millimetres.

When marking, I would mark infront of the ball and roll/lift the ball away backwards, and when placing would out the ball infront of the marker and remove the marker from behind.

Basically I was gaining the width of my marker.

Was embarassing, but glad Smiffy pointed it out and havent done it again.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

I need to grow a pair and start pulling people up on things, I felt as a committee member I should have said something so did so after the round was over. For my own sanity and possibly 3 points in the winter league, I should have said something earlier. My fault.

We all do things and say things differently, I am quite direct with people and I have no issue in saying something but its not for everyone. My doubles partner wouldn't say something if he saw some kicking a ball out of the rough but I go mad at cheats. I don't get why anyone has to cheat.

 

[swanny32]

Not trying to over egg this pudding, but you are also acting for all the other players in that comp too. Not only have they [maybe] done you out of points but it [may] also impact on the final outcome of any league or further matches.

Similar scenario in strokeplay comp - you may see him and NR but he may pip someone to the win by one shot because of his liberal attitude to marking.

Well, I pulled him up on it afterwards and hopefully, if it was a genuine error, then he'll stop doing it but he's been playing golf for years (or so he told me), I can't imagine I'm the first person to pull him up on it. I spoke to another guy in our division, who played him a couple of weeks ago and he noticed it too but didn't say anything.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

I used to do something dodgy that smiffy pulled me up on, was completely innocent and would only account for millimetres.

When marking, I would mark infront of the ball and roll/lift the ball away backwards, and when placing would out the ball infront of the marker and remove the marker from behind.

Basically I was gaining the width of my marker.

Was embarassing, but glad Smiffy pointed it out and havent done it again.

If you had just started then fine you learn by mistakes but if you had been playing for a few years and had a handicap then not good at all!

 

[swanny32]

We all do things and say things differently, I am quite direct with people and I have no issue in saying something but its not for everyone. My doubles partner wouldn't say something if he saw some kicking a ball out of the rough but I go mad at cheats. I don't get why anyone has to cheat.

I think I'm going to try and adopt your approach to cheats, something has to and should be said at the first instance of any rule breaking. One of the most gutting one's yesterday was a putt of his that literally died and dropped in the front of the cup....take that inch off and it wouldn't have gone in. Easy to look back and think of these things now though.

 

[3565]

I need to grow a pair and start pulling people up on things, I felt as a committee member I should have said something so did so after the round was over. For my own sanity and possibly 3 points in the winter league, I should have said something earlier. My fault.

God I can sympathise with you on this. I played in my club champs this year and being one of the lowest players I was playing with a +1 19yr old kid who plays for Lincolnshire county team and he was marking his ball from the side placing his coin at 7oclock then replacing it back with the coin being at 6oclock. Not a lot gained but the ball is not in its original position, and normally I wouldn't of noticed but I had shot myself out of the comp and had noticed this breach on the back 9. I like you didn't say anything and over night couldn't get it out of my mind and the following day he won shooting 72 69 gross. The kid can play so why do it? More importantly why I didn't say anything? I have let it go but I will remember for next time I play him I will defiantly pull him up on it and if like your situation he's none plussed about it I will refuse to sign his card.

 

[Robobum]

God I can sympathise with you on this. I played in my club champs this year and being one of the lowest players I was playing with a +1 19yr old kid who plays for Lincolnshire county team and he was marking his ball from the side placing his coin at 7oclock then replacing it back with the coin being at 6oclock. Not a lot gained but the ball is not in its original position, and normally I wouldn't of noticed but I had shot myself out of the comp and had noticed this breach on the back 9. I like you didn't say anything and over night couldn't get it out of my mind and the following day he won shooting 72 69 gross. The kid can play so why do it? More importantly why I didn't say anything? I have let it go but I will remember for next time I play him I will defiantly pull him up on it and if like your situation he's none plussed about it I will refuse to sign his card.

Hmm - 6 - 7o'clock?

Not sure that there is enough in that to know for sure that he is doing anything wrong. I'd be treading really carefully on that example.