A question about Qualifiers & Non-qualifiers

[HawkeyeMS]

Hi all, I was hoping the forum could clarify something for me. It was my understanding that any singles medal or stableford (standard not modified) competition played on a course not more than 100yds less than the measured length, using proper greens and that has been allocated a SSS had to be considered as a qualifying competition and handicaps had to be adjusted accordingly. I didn't think that this was the decision of the club.

However, our seniors had a match last week against a local(ish) club (and got well and truly stuffed) but it transpired that this club only adjust handicaps after medals played off the White tees. Stablefords are played off yellows which have all the requirements for a qualifying competition but are considered non-qualifiers at all times.

Is this allowed?

 

[daymond]

Good post. Looking forward to the answer.Come on you hackers

 

[bobmac]

Absolute rubbish.
There is a rule that says that if you are off CatI, 5 or below, you can't get cut off the yellow tees.
What does that tell you about CatII and above

 

[Tommo21]

Never in all my years have I played a proper club comp off the yellows, medal or stableford.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Thanks Bob. I wasn't aware of the Cat 1 thing but I think you are saying I am right about the rest of us. As long as the tees have an SSS and all other conditions are met, handicaps should be adjusted accordingly?

 

[Imurg]

At my old club, during the winter there were no white tees. Everything was off the yellows and people got cut accordingly.
IF your course has a SSS for whites and yellows then I can't see the problem. Generally the SSS from the yellows will be less than the whites, making it a bit harder to get cut even though the course is shorter.
My new club is less than 5 yards different on average per hole whites to yellows so SSS is the same anyway.

 

[Region3]

I'm guessing it must be allowed because that's what happens at our place.

White tees go in around October and come back out in April. While they're in we're off the yellows and although it's a measured course with its own SSS there are no qualifying competitions.

Makes my blood boil. I might even go to the AGM this year!

I rang round a few clubs local to me because I'd seriously consider moving clubs if one played qualifiers all year round. All bar one do the same as us, and the one that doesn't just has one roll-up a month as a qualifier.

Daft.

 

[USER1999]

We swap to yellows over the winter, and still have qualifiers. I'd be happy if they weren't to be honest, as the condition of the course is not conducive to good golf. It might play shorter, SSS is down to 70, but you can miss 12" putts through no fault of your own because the greens are bumpy, and haven't been cut for weeks.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I guess what I'm struggling with is there must be a rule. We play our medals and srablefords all year on the full course, medals on white tees and stablefords on yellow. They are always qualifiers and our handicaps our adjusted accordingly. Yes the greens can be bumpy and putting is difficult but it's the same for everyone. The CSS calculation already has facility to allow for difficult conditions because if CSS is 3 or more higher than SSS then the competition is deemed reductions only as ours was on Sunday.

If other clubs are playing off the full course but deciding that they don't want it to be a qualifier then the handicapping system is surely bought into question? It's no problem for internal club comps but as soon as you go and play inter club matches, as our seniors did last week then the club not adjusting handicaps when using the yellow tees surely has an advantage? Players could spend winter improving and have the same h'cap in April that they had in October when they very possibly should be lower? Obviously it works the other way and there will be players on lower handicaps than they should be but either way, I think handicaps should be adjusted the same for all clubs.

I find it hard to believe CONGU would allow clubs to simply decide the don't want to play a qualifier off the full course. Some of our roll-ups are non-qualifiers but we move the tees forward so the course is more than 100yds less than the measured distance.

 

[Oddsocks]

.White tees go in around October and come back out in April.

Surely no qualifying events for 7 months would effectively deem your h/c inactive, unless its end of october(1st nov) to start of spril (31st march), thus being less than 6 months.

 

[bobmac]

You may find this interesting reading.
Especially the last bit

To permit the UHS to operate as intended, all competitions should be run, whenever possible, as Qualifying Competitions. A number of dispensations for winter play have been granted by CONGU® to encourage this, including preferred lies and use of artificial mats.

http://www.congu.com/template2.asp?pid=48&parent=33&parent2=48

 

[Region3]

.White tees go in around October and come back out in April.

Surely no qualifying events for 7 months would effectively deem your h/c inactive, unless its end of october(1st nov) to start of spril (31st march), thus being less than 6 months.

Last qualifier was 2nd Oct, and I think the next one is the start of April, so that's more or less 6 months with none.

I thought to keep a handicap from lapsing it was 3 in the previous 12 months, is that not right?

Thanks for the link Bob. I might print a few copies of that and take it to the AGM in a couple of weeks.

 

[Oddsocks]

.White tees go in around October and come back out in April.

Surely no qualifying events for 7 months would effectively deem your h/c inactive, unless its end of october(1st nov) to start of spril (31st march), thus being less than 6 months.

Last qualifier was 2nd Oct, and I think the next one is the start of April, so that's more or less 6 months with none.

I thought to keep a handicap from lapsing it was 3 in the previous 12 months, is that not right?

Thanks for the link Bob. I might print a few copies of that and take it to the AGM in a couple of weeks.

im not 100% sure if im honest. i was playing with a guy on sunday who had for what ever reason had about 8 months out of golf. our club advised him that when he returned he had to put three new cards in as he's h/c was inactive.

its still a little bit of a sticky subject and ill await the outcome before posting anymore on this subject. what was interesting is the 3 cards he handed in gave him 21, when hes previous h/c was 14. he subsequently agreed to play of 18, won the next medal and it was protested that he's actual h/c was 14 and it was not a valid win.

with the above info you may well be right in saying it is 3 per 12 months.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Some answers:

Original question - No, it is not compulsory to run any comp as a qualifier. It's absolutely the decision of the club though CONGU obviously encourage clubs to do so.

Tees - The colour of the tees is irrelevant. As long as the COURSE used has a SSS assessed by the county union then you can run a qualifying comp on it. Subject to the 100 yd rule etc.

Bob, as far as I'm aware there is no rule that says Cat I cannot be cut from a competition played off yellow tees. A comp is either qualifying or not for all categories.

Overall - You are right to question any committee who regularly do not run qualifying comps when they could do. They are simply not doing their job correctly.

 

[Robobum]

.......Bob, as far as I'm aware there is no rule that says Cat I cannot be cut from a competition played off yellow tees. A comp is either qualifying or not for all categories......

I have certainly been cut during one of our 2 comps per year that are played off the yellow blocks.

 

[Golfmmad]

Never heard of Stableford off yellow tees in a qualifying competion. Why is this?

Golfmmad.

 

[bobmac]

Bob, as far as I'm aware there is no rule that says Cat I cannot be cut from a competition played off yellow tees. A comp is either qualifying or not for all categories

As far as I am concerned all comps should be off white tees and casual golf off the yellows.
To re-phrase....
Cat I golfers cannot get cut through general play which is normally off the yellows.

 

[funkyfred]

We play off the yellows from about Nov for about 3-4 months and I think our SSS drops by one. The thing is the hole is a dog leg left which everyone still plays to, they just hit a club one or two (no roll) less than in summer.
A few members believe our course is harder of the yellows? as this brings into play more hazards.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Some answers:

Original question - No, it is not compulsory to run any comp as a qualifier. It's absolutely the decision of the club though CONGU obviously encourage clubs to do so.

Tees - The colour of the tees is irrelevant. As long as the COURSE used has a SSS assessed by the county union then you can run a qualifying comp on it. Subject to the 100 yd rule etc.

Bob, as far as I'm aware there is no rule that says Cat I cannot be cut from a competition played off yellow tees. A comp is either qualifying or not for all categories.

Overall - You are right to question any committee who regularly do not run qualifying comps when they could do. They are simply not doing their job correctly.

Thanks. My opinion is that any comp that could be a qualifier should be a qualifier. Too many people use conditions such as winter as an excuse to not play qualifiers. As amateurs we are just as likely to play well in the middle of winter as in the middle of summer so why shouldn't we be cut accordingly?

 

[Fyldewhite]

Bob, as far as I'm aware there is no rule that says Cat I cannot be cut from a competition played off yellow tees. A comp is either qualifying or not for all categories

As far as I am concerned all comps should be off white tees and casual golf off the yellows.
To re-phrase....
Cat I golfers cannot get cut through general play which is normally off the yellows.

Just don't agree about yellows Bob. Consider a club with two courses. One a Championship Par 72 SSS 72 off the whites and the other a shorter Par 72 SSS 70 off the whites. Should the committee only run qualifying comps off the "proper" championship course and somehow "relegate" the shorter course? That would be silly but what most clubs actually have is two similar courses on the same patch of ground (does that matter ??) where the tees just happen to be yellow on one of them. Running comps off yellows just gives the committee flexibility. For example our seniors comps are generally run on the yellow course as are junior comps.

All in all, it doesn't really matter which tees are used. The key point is that clubs shouldn't run comps as non-qualifiers when there is no good reason and only having the yellow course available, say in winter, isn't one.