WeekendHacker
Medal Winner
It's not that there's no money, it's just fraudulent negligent mismanagement of public funds without accountability
A & E Overloading.
- Thread starter SocketRocket
- Start date
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
True, there has not been any cut to the overall spending for the NHS, it has been ring-fenced. The problem like all civil services is the outright waste.
palindromicbob
Tour Winner
Out of hours GP service is a farce. I've seen so many redirected to A&E and even know a few doctors who have a habit of calling for an ambulance when a patient requests a home visit out of hours. My wife did her back in one evening. Couln't move without being left in a lot of pain. Phoned out of hours for advice. They said a doctor would be back to me within the hour. OK I thought that's fine. hour passed back wasn't getting better and had no real idea of the damage that had been caused so didn't want to move her to much. Phoned out of hours again and they told me to get a 999 ambulance. I felt so bad when they pulled up. We didn't need a blue light but I couldn't get her out to the car so had no option.
Doctor phoned me when I was pulling up at A&E which is 40 minutes away. This was nearly 2 hours after my initial call. Checked out in A&E and they discharged her with paracetamol and bruphen. This wasn't anywhere near strong enough. Also no diazepam for the muscle spasms which turned out to be the issue. Had to get 30/500 cocodamol from the GP the following day because she could still barely move and hadn't slept for the pain. Getting the stronger meds was also fight despite explaining that the A&E meds weren't enough and she had already tried 8/500's which we have at home.
Don't get me started on the fact that I live in the only County in N. Ireland without an A&E.
Doctor phoned me when I was pulling up at A&E which is 40 minutes away. This was nearly 2 hours after my initial call. Checked out in A&E and they discharged her with paracetamol and bruphen. This wasn't anywhere near strong enough. Also no diazepam for the muscle spasms which turned out to be the issue. Had to get 30/500 cocodamol from the GP the following day because she could still barely move and hadn't slept for the pain. Getting the stronger meds was also fight despite explaining that the A&E meds weren't enough and she had already tried 8/500's which we have at home.
Don't get me started on the fact that I live in the only County in N. Ireland without an A&E.
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SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
If I suggested another cause was the increase in population through immigration and childbirth without the appropriate increase in facilities and that many of these people not being registered with a GP so their first call is A&E, then I guess I would be branded a racist?
stevie_r
Tour Winner
If you add into that the fact that the NHS are getting increasingly more efficient at keeping people alive for longer then you may have a point. Especially if you mention that sometimes getting an appointment with your GP can be ridiculous - 'sorry we haven't got anything until next week'.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Maybe a moderate increase in spending to increase the Triage system so that non-A&E cases could be dismissed earlier. I would also suggest that the number of drunken idiots that turn up on a week end after being picked up legless or hurt in brawl should be charged for their treatment.
Kellfire
Blackballed
In my profession I handle medical notes after a patient's discharge and I personally handle a lot of trauma/orthopaedic throughput so I see those who are admitted via A&E. What I find startling is the amount of comments in the notes like "Patient about to breach..." and from that moment on the care becomes about racing against the clock to avoid penalties.
This leads to a patient who doesn't need emergency care being bumped up the pecking order simply to avoid a financial penalty that the NHS will impose should the patient breach the wait time.
I can totally understand why it's frustrating if you think you have a broken arm, toe or whatever but these rules are ridiculous and keep important care from those who need it because it turns it into a money machine.
This leads to a patient who doesn't need emergency care being bumped up the pecking order simply to avoid a financial penalty that the NHS will impose should the patient breach the wait time.
I can totally understand why it's frustrating if you think you have a broken arm, toe or whatever but these rules are ridiculous and keep important care from those who need it because it turns it into a money machine.
Kellfire
Blackballed
They are, they pay tax and a lot of it on their alcohol. Don't confuse free with free at the point of contact.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I pay tax but dont get drunk in town and clog up the A&E, I doubt you do either. I would question that they all pay NI as well. My point was mainly aimed at reducing numbers rather than increasing revenue.
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Kellfire
Blackballed
I agree with you in part, don't get me wrong but there are worse issues with the NHS.
I see orthognathic surgery offered for people who look perfectly normal. I see bariatric surgery offered, which should NEVER be an option.
stevie_r
Tour Winner
So what would your stance be on a person who has over imbibed but has then been the victim of an unprovoked attack?
Well, then the triage nurse would have to judge the person who needed treatment.
A very slippery slope!
Foxholer
Blackballed
Are you saying that should never be done? Or that it shouldn't be offered to certain of the folk that it is currently offered to.
I'm not convinced IVF style 'treatment' should be provided by NHS though.
Golfing today with a guy who's father's retirement plans were ruined by an (alleged - as the litigation is ongoing) NHS failure, oddly at a course owned by a guy whose life was saved by some NHS brilliance! I've seen good and bad sides of NHS, but A&E has been very good or better.
Kellfire
Blackballed
I don't think the NHS should offer weight loss surgery, it's as simple as that. It's a slippery slope. I can see why there is a cost element to it (stop the issues that would appear later in life) but lifestyle should change, not just surgery to offer a relatively easy fix.
And I agree completely, IVF should not be available on the NHS.
Matty
Tour Rookie
For me it all boils down very simply to this question - what does A&E stand for, what does it mean?
You see a while ago it used to mean "Accident and Emergency" but today is seems to mean "Anything and Everything".
Seriously, I've heard about drunks calling an ambulance to get a ride home and patients calling to see their GP for a sick note and when told it's not something clinically urgent they go to A&E!
In order to 'manage' this inappropriate demand managers build new departments to handle urgent but not emergency patients right next door to A&E departments. This, in the long term, does not solve the problem, it makes it worse by encouraging people to go back as they were seen at the time that suited them when they went to that new building.
The answer is responsible use of the NHS by everyone - but how you achieve that aim with committing political suicide it beyond government. Any government who started to take action against individuals who book GP appointments and then don't bother turning up again and again, who took action against people who don't bother keeping their hospital appointments on a regular basis and who call 999 or attend A&E for things that are neither accidents or emergencies by charging them or banning them from future NHS usage would be massively condemned by the press and unions.
Sadly, it's never going to get fixed and will always be a focus for the media.
You see a while ago it used to mean "Accident and Emergency" but today is seems to mean "Anything and Everything".
Seriously, I've heard about drunks calling an ambulance to get a ride home and patients calling to see their GP for a sick note and when told it's not something clinically urgent they go to A&E!
In order to 'manage' this inappropriate demand managers build new departments to handle urgent but not emergency patients right next door to A&E departments. This, in the long term, does not solve the problem, it makes it worse by encouraging people to go back as they were seen at the time that suited them when they went to that new building.
The answer is responsible use of the NHS by everyone - but how you achieve that aim with committing political suicide it beyond government. Any government who started to take action against individuals who book GP appointments and then don't bother turning up again and again, who took action against people who don't bother keeping their hospital appointments on a regular basis and who call 999 or attend A&E for things that are neither accidents or emergencies by charging them or banning them from future NHS usage would be massively condemned by the press and unions.
Sadly, it's never going to get fixed and will always be a focus for the media.
Foxholer
Blackballed
When all the other 'remedies' have been tried and were unsuccessful, then this becomes a reasonable approach. I've certainly known folk for whom it's been appropriate.
So I'd disagree with your 'NEVER' assertion.
Stopping later (and current) issues is the only thing NHS should be concerned about imo. Anything else is purely cosmetic - for which there can be occasional justification.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Weight loss surgery is an interesting case, but it is a drop in the ocean compared to the billions that have been wasted in setting up Foundation Trusts (look at the list of the 14 hospitals in the news recently), PFI schemes (which are rigged to appear good value but are in fact financially crippling) and hiring external advice from McKinsey and other management consultants. Management Consultants only offer two types of advice - a generic slash and burn or a conformation of what you already wanted to do but were afraid to say.
If all the money spent on the NHS was directed primarily to healthcare, we would have much better A&E departments, shorter waiting times and fewer Mid Staffs disasters. Both main parties are to blame. The Tories started it, but Labour (under Blair) accelerated it, and now the Tories will administer to coup de grace.
If all the money spent on the NHS was directed primarily to healthcare, we would have much better A&E departments, shorter waiting times and fewer Mid Staffs disasters. Both main parties are to blame. The Tories started it, but Labour (under Blair) accelerated it, and now the Tories will administer to coup de grace.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Sorry but you sound like you're bitter when you are a prime example of wasting the services. Doctors and ambulances for a back back!!
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
^
But shouldn't he just have been dealt with in about 30 seconds???? I don't see why these type of people sitting in A&E still take so long??
Totally agree about people who are drunk should be charged (a small fee) but not sure exactly how that would/could be implemented.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Someone would need to make a decision, this is the case in all walks of life and the only option. If you get pulled into A@E drunk then I would say you get charged something like £50 for treatment, it's tough but it would be the penalty for your behaviour. The same would apply for drugs.
