SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
We see it in the media every day and the blame seems to be laid at Doctors shorter working hours, the ageing population and NHS cuts. Are they not missing the 'Elephant in the Room"?
A & E Overloading.
- Thread starter SocketRocket
- Start date
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
We have friends who live in England and tell us how bad it is down there.
Fader
Tour Winner
Some of the cuts are a joke though and in fact not cuts at all but moving money about. My sister had worked for the NHS since she was 20 in varying guise's and her last 2 roles summed up the movement they do with fund's. She was general manager for medicine & A+E services on a very tidy sum and had massively improved the A+E care at her hospital but they felt she was over paid for that role so moved her to run and sort out medical records for the trust, now the person that took over her role was then given a larger salary! Work out that cost cutting exercise!
Then after sorting out the trusts records they merge with another local hospital & trust so decide they don't need 2 medical records directors again fair enough so they have 2 highly paid individuals in the same rule and decide to offer my sister a massive redundancy package + full nhs pension as her length of service qualified her for it as she was employed under the old nhs pension criteria. Her payout was enough to pay her mortgage, buy a new car, has funded my nieces uni fees and still a little left over. Now at the age of 45 she lives off her full pension and works for a well know funeral services company helping arrange funerals as she finds it highly satisfying and is doing it to help others and not for the cash! The comical thing is the other person they allowed to remain instead of her is on a higher wage but would have cost them a years salary to get rid of and no pension entitlement.
NHS cost cutting at its finest! Still my sister was always the brains of the family and is now nicely settled thanks to the NHS mismanagement.
Then after sorting out the trusts records they merge with another local hospital & trust so decide they don't need 2 medical records directors again fair enough so they have 2 highly paid individuals in the same rule and decide to offer my sister a massive redundancy package + full nhs pension as her length of service qualified her for it as she was employed under the old nhs pension criteria. Her payout was enough to pay her mortgage, buy a new car, has funded my nieces uni fees and still a little left over. Now at the age of 45 she lives off her full pension and works for a well know funeral services company helping arrange funerals as she finds it highly satisfying and is doing it to help others and not for the cash! The comical thing is the other person they allowed to remain instead of her is on a higher wage but would have cost them a years salary to get rid of and no pension entitlement.
NHS cost cutting at its finest! Still my sister was always the brains of the family and is now nicely settled thanks to the NHS mismanagement.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
In my area of Scotland we have a very good system at our hospital called Doctors on Call.
Out of GP hours you can ring up with minor emergencies and speak to a GP.
If the GP is not happy that he/she can sort the problem on the telephone they will ask you to come and see them at the local A&E.
They are separate to A&E [but based there] and funded by the GP's.
This is great with young kids as they are seen and treated almost immediately.
In England I think the out of hours GP service has been a disaster with nearly all calls told to go to A&E which results in overload.
Out of GP hours you can ring up with minor emergencies and speak to a GP.
If the GP is not happy that he/she can sort the problem on the telephone they will ask you to come and see them at the local A&E.
They are separate to A&E [but based there] and funded by the GP's.
This is great with young kids as they are seen and treated almost immediately.
In England I think the out of hours GP service has been a disaster with nearly all calls told to go to A&E which results in overload.
One Planer
Global Moderator
It really is getting close to breaking point now.
About a year, maybe a little more now, our son had quite a nasty fall and bumped his head quite badly.
When I took him to the local A&E, the kids section was absolutely heaving. There were no seats, and very little room. I had to stand, holding my son for just shy of 4 hours, to be seen by a 'doctor' who basically said.
"Has he been sick?" "Has he lost conciousness?"
When I gave him the answers, hw shone a light in his eyes and said "He's fine, take him home and monitor him"
Why did I have to wait 4 hours to be told this. Why couldn't the triage nurse have asked those questions?
Yes, I would rather my son be checked by a doctor as opposed to a nurse, but, I'm sorry what he did was not, IMO, a proper examination. All because they were, clearly, overloaded.
About a year, maybe a little more now, our son had quite a nasty fall and bumped his head quite badly.
When I took him to the local A&E, the kids section was absolutely heaving. There were no seats, and very little room. I had to stand, holding my son for just shy of 4 hours, to be seen by a 'doctor' who basically said.
"Has he been sick?" "Has he lost conciousness?"
When I gave him the answers, hw shone a light in his eyes and said "He's fine, take him home and monitor him"
Why did I have to wait 4 hours to be told this. Why couldn't the triage nurse have asked those questions?
Yes, I would rather my son be checked by a doctor as opposed to a nurse, but, I'm sorry what he did was not, IMO, a proper examination. All because they were, clearly, overloaded.
Fader
Tour Winner
We have that service to, but for a lot of things for the kids your told to go to A&E where you then have to wait for several hours!
Ethan
Money List Winner
The crisis in A&E is due to several factors converging.
NHS Direct (known as NHS Redirect) by many doctors, and the disastrous 111 system have pushed a lot of rubbish to A&E departments that could be dealt with at minor injury centres or by the punter at home themselves.
The target culture in A&E where everyone must be seen within 4 hours distorts priorities, and leads to the ridiculous situation where patients in ambulances circle the car park so that the clock doesn't start.
And patient demand has grown. People pitch up to A&E with all sorts of nonsense complaints and this delays treatment for those who actually need something.
The media is being fed a line about GPs not working hard and not caring about OOH work. They don't seem to realise that if doctors work OOH more, they can't work 9-5 too. So, are people happy with fewer daytime appointments?
In reality, a lot of this negative publicity is to soften the public up for privatisation of primary care services. Reform of doctors pensions is the same, as private companies don't want to take on open ended pension commitments. People think this private stuff will mean cosy waiting rooms with Nespresso machines and 20 minute appointments available at short notice. It really really won't. If you think things are bad now, just wait.
NHS Direct (known as NHS Redirect) by many doctors, and the disastrous 111 system have pushed a lot of rubbish to A&E departments that could be dealt with at minor injury centres or by the punter at home themselves.
The target culture in A&E where everyone must be seen within 4 hours distorts priorities, and leads to the ridiculous situation where patients in ambulances circle the car park so that the clock doesn't start.
And patient demand has grown. People pitch up to A&E with all sorts of nonsense complaints and this delays treatment for those who actually need something.
The media is being fed a line about GPs not working hard and not caring about OOH work. They don't seem to realise that if doctors work OOH more, they can't work 9-5 too. So, are people happy with fewer daytime appointments?
In reality, a lot of this negative publicity is to soften the public up for privatisation of primary care services. Reform of doctors pensions is the same, as private companies don't want to take on open ended pension commitments. People think this private stuff will mean cosy waiting rooms with Nespresso machines and 20 minute appointments available at short notice. It really really won't. If you think things are bad now, just wait.
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
This is a major problem over here also , the triage thing wrecks my head tho , ya go in after falling or hurting your arm etc or you have had a leg or arm injury from sport , you wait , you get triaged & you wait, you eventualy see the doc & he sends you for an xray of the injury you wait , you get xrayed and sent back , you wait , the xrays arrive the doc looks at them says nothing broke off home with ya wrapped up..
how about you see the triage nurse he/she assess what wrong an they send you for the xray straight away NO WAITING , you come back from xray , and your waiting for the doc as the xrays are being processed , you see the doc and he already has the info in front of him/her that they need to have
I appreciate this wouldn't work in all cases but surely this would speed up 7/10 cases in A&E ?
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
How true is this , dont mean to be nasty here if you had to pay for every A&E visit the que's would be shorter
Personal opinion from personal experiences only
stevie_r
Tour Winner
Yes paying for visits to A & E would probably get rid of the people who split a finger nail whilst gardening. Unfortunately it would also get rid of a fair few people who genuinely need treatment but who simply don't have the money to pay.
Captainron
Big Hitting, South African Sweary Person
People are far too eager to get to A&E for minor injuries which can be dealt with at your doctor the next day. People who have injured themselves when boozed should pay to be seen IMO.
Rooter
Money List Winner
We have the same thing darn sarf. ring up, speak to a GP, if they want to see the patient we go to the local hospital out of hours GP surgery. never have we been sent to A&E for a non emergency.. think saturday night and the boy has tonsilitus, or a nasty weird rash etc. it has recently gone to 111 which is a national number, but ultimately the same service and i for one have been very happy with the service we have received as a family. we use it quite a lot too!! and if its past midnight and the child "needs" to be seen but still not A&E, the doctor comes to our house. pretty good service IMHO.
Rooter
Money List Winner
Following up on my last post, i think as a nation we expect to be seen quickly and by the highest qualified person available.
some may remember a few months ago, my daughter fell from about 10ft monkey bars, she was obviously hurt. we immediately turned up at the local hospital (non A&E) minor injuries and out of hours service (Saturday afternoon). She was very quickly seen by a nurse and assessed. Within 1 hour of being there, she was x-rayed and diagnosed with 2 x double fractures of the wrist and within 3 hours she was in double plaster casts, facial injuries cleaned and we were on our way to McDonalds for a happy meal.
Absolutely massive thumbs up to the staff at the local hospital, most people probably would have gone to A&E with my daughter and spent 8 hours there, but if you know what services can be delivered by excellent nurses then next time you think you need A&E, really have a think about it. for me, A&E is "life threatening" or something really nasty (2 broken wrists is not "really" nasty!) and if it turned out to be worse than they can deal with, we would have been sent on to A&E anyway, but probably "by appointment" as we had before when my daughters oxygen levels were dangerously low due to Pneumonia.
some may remember a few months ago, my daughter fell from about 10ft monkey bars, she was obviously hurt. we immediately turned up at the local hospital (non A&E) minor injuries and out of hours service (Saturday afternoon). She was very quickly seen by a nurse and assessed. Within 1 hour of being there, she was x-rayed and diagnosed with 2 x double fractures of the wrist and within 3 hours she was in double plaster casts, facial injuries cleaned and we were on our way to McDonalds for a happy meal.
Absolutely massive thumbs up to the staff at the local hospital, most people probably would have gone to A&E with my daughter and spent 8 hours there, but if you know what services can be delivered by excellent nurses then next time you think you need A&E, really have a think about it. for me, A&E is "life threatening" or something really nasty (2 broken wrists is not "really" nasty!) and if it turned out to be worse than they can deal with, we would have been sent on to A&E anyway, but probably "by appointment" as we had before when my daughters oxygen levels were dangerously low due to Pneumonia.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Last time I was sitting in A&E about half of the patients should not have been there. IMO
There was a well dressed elderly couple who were strutting around and hurrumphing about the delay.
From what I could see it was about a cut to his thumb which had stopped bleeding.
There was a well dressed elderly couple who were strutting around and hurrumphing about the delay.
From what I could see it was about a cut to his thumb which had stopped bleeding.
DCB
Well-known member
My elderly mother had a bad fall during the night, broken her hip and tib & fib (same leg). We ended up at A&E at around 7am and I couldn't believe the number of people who were in there after their Thursday night (the weekend starts here) drinking sessions. Whilst my mother was dealt with very quickly and fed into the process, I couldn't get over how obnoxious and self centred most of these Thursday night revellers were. The way they spoke to and treated staff was unbelievable.
My mother was treated well and was in theatre by mid afternoon. So no complaints from me about standard of care.
My mother was treated well and was in theatre by mid afternoon. So no complaints from me about standard of care.
Crazyface
Tour Winner
Not A&E but a cost thing......a relative who works for the NHS told me a story the other day. If he goes to the canteen and wants say egg and bacon but wants the egg to be "runny", he has to sign a form saying that he has requested a "runny" egg. Who keeps these forms and for how long he does not know but.........good grief !!!!
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I read today of a suggestion that, like going to the Dentist, we pay a fee to visit our GP - thereby cutting down on the amount of 'pointless' visits that fill GP surgeiers and cause an overspill to A&E. I have some sympathy for this, but it strikes me that as the majority do not pay for their prescriptions (don't ask me how that can be the case but that is my understanding) - then they won't pay for their visits to GPs - whether visit is necessary or not. So that wouldn't be much of a deterrent for the majority.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
risk of consumer claiming he was ill due to egg not been fully cooked - compensation gimme gimme gimme. Sad but our greed has brought this upon ourselves.
Coatsy79
Q-School Graduate
Sadly too many time wasters in hospitals etc nowadays
A couple of years back when my wife was pregnant with our boy we had a scare, popped along to the early scan clinic to be checked over
We got there, waited ages to get in as they hadnt opened yet only to find 3 young chavs already sat in the clinic first in line to get a scan/check as they knew a back way in because they'd been every 2 weeks since they been pregnant to in their own words "get a free scan picture of their baby"
All this in between popping out for fags!!!
There were genuinely **** scared people in there worried about there baby's who needed checking over who couldn't be seen because they were too busy
You always see these types in hospitals, nothing better to do than waste good people's time
A couple of years back when my wife was pregnant with our boy we had a scare, popped along to the early scan clinic to be checked over
We got there, waited ages to get in as they hadnt opened yet only to find 3 young chavs already sat in the clinic first in line to get a scan/check as they knew a back way in because they'd been every 2 weeks since they been pregnant to in their own words "get a free scan picture of their baby"
All this in between popping out for fags!!!
There were genuinely **** scared people in there worried about there baby's who needed checking over who couldn't be seen because they were too busy
You always see these types in hospitals, nothing better to do than waste good people's time
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Work for an NHS trust and recruit nurses (all grades), HCA's up to senior management so see the issues on a daily basis. I happen to think in general the staff on the shop floor are doing a brilliant job under immense pressure in terms of numbers through the door and increasing government targets and spending cuts.
The 111 system is only going to fill A&E with minor injuries that should be treated locally and a lot more triage work is going to need to be done to sieve out these "timewasting" callers. We have a local walk in centre conveniently located in Reading town centre which should/could deal with a lot of these. How do things change? No idea as I'm just a small cog in a big, greased up wheel but something has to change and fast
The 111 system is only going to fill A&E with minor injuries that should be treated locally and a lot more triage work is going to need to be done to sieve out these "timewasting" callers. We have a local walk in centre conveniently located in Reading town centre which should/could deal with a lot of these. How do things change? No idea as I'm just a small cog in a big, greased up wheel but something has to change and fast
