2's Query/problem

[2blue]

Not strictly a Rules of Golf issue & not straight forward, but then I wouldn't be posting it here if it was.
How does your Club handle &/or what is the legal position regarding the following when a player gets a 2 in a Club Comp where the 2's are included in the entry-fee (ie. compulsory... would it be different if not compulsory?)
1. He records score to PSI but doesn't return his card
2. No PSI entry nor card returned but he has recorded a 2 on the PP's card he was marking ... (spotted when recovering his scores for CSS)

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Our Pro and Captain review our 2’s rules every year.

2’s entry is optional never compulsory.
2’s are not paid out for a DQ from a comp.

 

[MendieGK]

surely every cub can administer the rules themselves.

Personally i think an NR with a 2 should still be paid, as long as entry of the card etc is all done properly.

I agree that not entering card, leading to a DQ should NOT lead to 2s money/prize being awarded

 

[Duckster]

Our 2's is run by the pro shop, not the club. An NR with a 2 is still counted. DQ for not submitting a card means no 2's paid out as they can only go from the submitted scores / cards.

 

[duncan mackie]

Not strictly a Rules of Golf issue & not straight forward, but then I wouldn't be posting it here if it was.
How does your Club handle &/or what is the legal position regarding the following when a player gets a 2 in a Club Comp where the 2's are included in the entry-fee (ie. compulsory... would it be different if not compulsory?)
1. He records score to PSI but doesn't return his card
2. No PSI entry nor card returned but he has recorded a 2 on the PP's card he was marking ... (spotted when recovering his scores for CSS)

Pretty straight forward to me...
1. PSI entry is irrelevant. No card returned for the competition means exactly that - no scores returned. No pay out.
2. Same, no card returned, no scores are therefore returned - no pay out.
To get a 2 in a competition you need to return a card with a 2 on it; simples.
Just to show I'm not simply being negative, card returned with NRs on a few holes, even in a medal, and there's a 2 - fine, get paid out 🤗

 

[jim8flog]

2's are not compulsory where I play.

If the card was recorded on the PSI it would show up on the 2s list and I am pretty sure it is that list which is given to the Pro to credit a players account.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

2's are optional entry at my club, but no card return means no payout.

 

[Jamesbrown]

No card, no pay.

 

[duncan mackie]

2's are not compulsory where I play.

If the card was recorded on the PSI it would show up on the 2s list and I am pretty sure it is that list which is given to the Pro to credit a players account.

This implies that you are happy to handicap players without any card being returned?
If the player won the comp, that's ok too?

 

[jim8flog]

This implies that you are happy to handicap players without any card being returned?
If the player won the comp, that's ok too?

Competition results and handicaps are handled as per normal.

I am not responsible for dealing with comp results we have a club secretary for that which is why I said " I am pretty sure".

 

[Old Skier]

Brave making 2's compulsory. Not sure legally it should be allowed.

 

[clubchamp98]

Paying for a twos comp is a form of gambling ( though mild like lottery)
So making it compulsory is imo not right.
Some members can’t reach the greens on our par 3s 200yds/196yds so to make them go in the twos is unfair.
Where the low men get loads that’s why we have two categories 0/12 & 13/28.

 

[rulefan]

Not strictly a Rules of Golf issue & not straight forward, but then I wouldn't be posting it here if it was.
How does your Club handle &/or what is the legal position regarding the following when a player gets a 2 in a Club Comp where the 2's are included in the entry-fee (ie. compulsory... would it be different if not compulsory?)
1. He records score to PSI but doesn't return his card
2. No PSI entry nor card returned but he has recorded a 2 on the PP's card he was marking ... (spotted when recovering his scores for CSS)

Is entry compulsory with a fee or automatic with no fee?
However, no card no prize.

 

[LGC2019]

Our 2's competition is optional, most players enter. 2's still count if you NR which is something I don't agree with.

 

[jim8flog]

At our club 2 comps are run by the pro shop and not by the club. Entry in to the competition is done in there and the entry fee is paid to them it is up to them to set the rules for the comp. The only 'duty' on the club is to notify the shop which players have had a 2 or better.

I will check what happens if the card is missing but the score has been entered on to the PSI with regards to 2's.

 

[IanM]

2s are part of the entry fee and you need to enter score/card or they dont know youve had one! Never heard any compliaints about it

 

[rulie]

Gambling is covered in the Rules of Amateur Status, see the excerpt below (with a highlighted portion):

Acceptable Forms of Gambling
There is no objection to informal gambling or wagering among individual golfers or teams of golfers when it is incidental to the game. It is not practicable to define informal gambling or wagering precisely, but features that would be consistent with such gambling or wagering include:

• the players in general know each other;
• participation in the gambling or wagering is optional and is limited to the players;
• the sole source of all money won by the players is advanced by the players; and
• the amount of money involved is not generally considered to be excessive.

Therefore, informal gambling or wagering is acceptable provided the primary purpose is the playing of the game for enjoyment, not for financial gain.

 

[clubchamp98]

Gambling is covered in the Rules of Amateur Status, see the excerpt below (with a highlighted portion):

Acceptable Forms of Gambling
There is no objection to informal gambling or wagering among individual golfers or teams of golfers when it is incidental to the game. It is not practicable to define informal gambling or wagering precisely, but features that would be consistent with such gambling or wagering include:

• the players in general know each other;
• participation in the gambling or wagering is optional and is limited to the players;
• the sole source of all money won by the players is advanced by the players; and
• the amount of money involved is not generally considered to be excessive.

Therefore, informal gambling or wagering is acceptable provided the primary purpose is the playing of the game for enjoyment, not for financial gain.

What if the member in question is against all forms of gambling.
If it’s compulsory that puts them in an awkward position.
To force someone to take part is wrong , that was my point not the legality of it.
He has a choice to leave the club but that would seem counterproductive in this day and age.

 

[Old Skier]

Gambling is covered in the Rules of Amateur Status, see the excerpt below (with a highlighted portion):

Acceptable Forms of Gambling

• participation in the gambling or wagering is optional and is limited to the players;

The point is, it must be optional. How do those clubs that make it compulsory deal with comps if juniors are playing.

 

[duncan mackie]

The point is, it must be optional. How do those clubs that make it compulsory deal with comps if juniors are playing.

The concept of 2s pots is closer to prizes/prize money than gambling IMO.
Then again there's more than one way to run 2s!
We have always kept it simple - fixed percentages of the competition entry fee pool get paid as prizes (direct to club cards) and anyone scoring a 2 gets £6, also paid direct to club card. This applies to everyone - we don't have juniors (CONGU doesn't), if you have a valid handicap you are a member playing in the competition.
Gambling is a very different thing.