2022 Professional golf thread

[evemccc]

Believing that only this move is morally questionable is kidding yourself.

Cracking post

I think everyone thinks the Saudi govt is morally questionable

But wasn’t there already a European Tour golf event held in Saudi Arabia the past few years???

It’s only now that the ‘strategic alliance’ of the PGA Tour / DP World Tour organisations are challenged and threatened by this emergence, is the ‘human-rights’ called into account

 

[fundy]

Cracking post

I think everyone thinks the Saudi govt is morally questionable

But wasn’t there already a European Tour golf event held in Saudi Arabia the past few years???

It’s only now that the ‘strategic alliance’ of the PGA Tour / DP World Tour organisations are challenged and threatened by this emergence, is the ‘human-rights’ called into account

apart from it isnt

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Cracking post

I think everyone thinks the Saudi govt is morally questionable

But wasn’t there already a European Tour golf event held in Saudi Arabia the past few years???

It’s only now that the ‘strategic alliance’ of the PGA Tour / DP World Tour organisations are challenged and threatened by this emergence, is the ‘human-rights’ called into account

There have been numerous threads over the years in regards golf events in Saudi - the recent one was in regards the Ladies Event over there - Human rights in the Middle East has been challenged on here plenty of times.



https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/european-tour-in-saudi-arabia.100306/

 

[evemccc]

There have been numerous threads over the years in regards golf events in Saudi - the recent one was in regards the Ladies Event over there - Human rights in the Middle East has been challenged on here plenty of times.



https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/european-tour-in-saudi-arabia.100306/

I’m not referring to this forum

I am talking about the media, and specifically Golf Media…No Laying Up podcasts, the Iain Carter BBC article today for example are all explicitly (and in the BBC’s article, as it can’t be seen to show overt bias) implicitly against the Saudi venture

 

[BiMGuy]

Maybe going to Saudi allows people to highlight what goes on there. Shine a light on their issues and they might change.

I presume those that think golfers going to Saudi don’t buy goods from or visit other countries that have questionable human rights records?

 

[rksquire]

Sport is implicitly immoral in my opinion, Golf isn't above this.

I love football, rugby and enjoy basically every sport but I'd struggle to name one that's not corrupt or full of morally questionable characters. We all call for change when known about issues reach a point where it's unpalatable for the public, there's a supposed change, but we all know there's a scandal just round the corner. For example, I certainly don't believe FIFA has its house in order.

I think there's a bit of a 'faux' outrage over the Norman venture - I don't think the PGA, DPWT, Carter or whoever would be any more happy if it was back by an American Venture Capitalist organisation - the fact it's Saudi backed allows the powers that be to get on their high horse to protect their own interests. However, if it was backed by A. N. Other there'd be other reasons to denigrate it. From Westwoods comments this morning it seems he's on board.

It's hard to remove the human rights aspect from the argument though, and it absolutely has to be highlighted and discussed, but my own feeling on it is that its success depends on attracting the right players - if it attracts enough 'stars' it will be successful regardless of the funding source and the global outcry about track records etc. Even if you've won 'circa' £30m in prize money and more in sponsorship, if you're in the twilight of your career and have an opportunity to get the same again (guaranteed!) in a much shorter space of time....I've got to be honest I don't think there'd be many turning it down, especially when you can convince yourself you can highlight the human rights, work with & towards improving it, hold the paymasters to account etc.

 

[MarkT]

On a very basic front I don't think even I (as someone who watches any golf eg the Trilby Tour qualifiers) would really want to watch a team event with Westwood, Johnson, Poulter etc captaining teams of other less-known players on boring courses. It would be maybe one step up from The Match which I can't get on board with at all.

If Westwood, Poulter and Stenson do join up and are excluded from the Ryder Cup captaincy then that would leave the door nicely open for Donald, McDowell etc who might easily have missed out. Maybe even Sandy Lyle (joke)

 

[Bdill93]

I am ignoring all facts about funding etc in this post. I have opposition to the PIF fund stuff but I do find one aspect of the new project interesting

Quoting Westwood "Certainly if you do it like the team aspect, there's more action happening in more different places." - He's damn right.

Currently, Thursday to Saturday in an average PGA tour do not interest me enough to tune in often. The final day is interesting watching players chase down a leader and people falling away etc - there is real drama and entertainment.

With a team based event, there might be more of a pull to watch more of it. I've no idea how its planned to work going forward, but teams chasing down teams sounds quite interesting to me. Maybe over 4 days you can only let each individual play three times, so do you use the big boys early in the week or later? Can team Callaway pull back 6 points/shots on the final day because team TM have already used 3 days of Rory, DJ and Colin M but Callaway still have Rahm and Phil out? Every grouping might matter rather than the leading 2 or 3 groups.

Imagine on the final day team Wilson look to be winning but someone double bogies 3 holes in a row as the last player out and those 6 shots lose the tournament despite your teammate breaking 60?

Could be great, could be nothing - and please don't criticise the players mentioned above - just names off the top of my head who I know are sponsored by brands - just spitballing ideas!

 

[Barking_Mad]

For the greedy man, there is never enough.

 

[evemccc]

Sport is implicitly immoral in my opinion, Golf isn't above this.

I love football, rugby and enjoy basically every sport but I'd struggle to name one that's not corrupt or full of morally questionable characters. We all call for change when known about issues reach a point where it's unpalatable for the public, there's a supposed change, but we all know there's a scandal just round the corner. For example, I certainly don't believe FIFA has its house in order.

I think there's a bit of a 'faux' outrage over the Norman venture - I don't think the PGA, DPWT, Carter or whoever would be any more happy if it was back by an American Venture Capitalist organisation - the fact it's Saudi backed allows the powers that be to get on their high horse to protect their own interests. However, if it was backed by A. N. Other there'd be other reasons to denigrate it. From Westwoods comments this morning it seems he's on board.

It's hard to remove the human rights aspect from the argument though, and it absolutely has to be highlighted and discussed, but my own feeling on it is that its success depends on attracting the right players - if it attracts enough 'stars' it will be successful regardless of the funding source and the global outcry about track records etc. Even if you've won 'circa' £30m in prize money and more in sponsorship, if you're in the twilight of your career and have an opportunity to get the same again (guaranteed!) in a much shorter space of time....I've got to be honest I don't think there'd be many turning it down, especially when you can convince yourself you can highlight the human rights, work with & towards improving it, hold the paymasters to account etc.

I agree with this ??

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Sport is implicitly immoral in my opinion, Golf isn't above this.

I love football, rugby and enjoy basically every sport but I'd struggle to name one that's not corrupt or full of morally questionable characters. We all call for change when known about issues reach a point where it's unpalatable for the public, there's a supposed change, but we all know there's a scandal just round the corner. For example, I certainly don't believe FIFA has its house in order.

I think there's a bit of a 'faux' outrage over the Norman venture - I don't think the PGA, DPWT, Carter or whoever would be any more happy if it was back by an American Venture Capitalist organisation - the fact it's Saudi backed allows the powers that be to get on their high horse to protect their own interests. However, if it was backed by A. N. Other there'd be other reasons to denigrate it. From Westwoods comments this morning it seems he's on board.

It's hard to remove the human rights aspect from the argument though, and it absolutely has to be highlighted and discussed, but my own feeling on it is that its success depends on attracting the right players - if it attracts enough 'stars' it will be successful regardless of the funding source and the global outcry about track records etc. Even if you've won 'circa' £30m in prize money and more in sponsorship, if you're in the twilight of your career and have an opportunity to get the same again (guaranteed!) in a much shorter space of time....I've got to be honest I don't think there'd be many turning it down, especially when you can convince yourself you can highlight the human rights, work with & towards improving it, hold the paymasters to account etc.

I agree with the majority of this except I have a serious doubt they'd even consider highlighting human rights and even less to work towards improving it and certainly not holding the paymasters to account. Why bite the hand and all that.

I would have no personal interest in any form of team event led by players towards the end of their career and with lesser players in the sides.

 

[BiMGuy]

Funny how so many people are suddenly worried about the human rights of people in other countries when a few sports stars are getting paid to go their. Where was the concern previously ??‍. Especially from those who think refugees should be left in the channel.

How many concerned people are happy to buy goods from China, or watch golf in the US, or are watching the Winter Olympics in China?

If most people against the golf in Saudi were honest, they are just envious of the money being paid out. They would be over there like a rat up a drain pipe if offered even a small percentage of what some of the golfers are earning.

Not everyone is like that of course.

 

[woofers]

It's hard to remove the human rights aspect from the argument though, and it absolutely has to be highlighted and discussed, but my own feeling on it is that its success depends on attracting the right players - if it attracts enough 'stars' it will be successful regardless of the funding source and the global outcry about track records etc. Even if you've won 'circa' £30m in prize money and more in sponsorship, if you're in the twilight of your career and have an opportunity to get the same again (guaranteed!) in a much shorter space of time....I've got to be honest I don't think there'd be many turning it down, especially when you can convince yourself you can highlight the human rights, work with & towards improving it, hold the paymasters to account etc.

Ha, ha, ha, the already wealthy golfers will jet in, transfer around in limousines, play golf and jet out again with enhanced bank accounts. They will say diddly squat other than that which is scripted by the PR consultants. Non Disclosure Agreements are already being signed by Westwood, possibly Johnson, preventing them from saying anything about the project, so it’s unlikely they will say anything about human rights! The Saudi rulers have nothing to fear.

 

[sunshine]

I've got to be honest I don't think there'd be many turning it down, especially when you can convince yourself you can highlight the human rights, work with & towards improving it, hold the paymasters to account etc.

As homer and woofers pointed out, this bit is naive. The people taking the Saudi cash are mercenaries and will be under contract to do nothing but praise the golf course, the sponsors and the country.

I felt a bit sad when I read your comment that "sport is implicitly immoral." You are correct, it is full of morally questionable characters, which is a tragedy because in its purest form there is something exceptionally noble about sport.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I think the main reason players are going to Saudi, China, the US, Dubai etc - all the backward, dodgy states - is that it’s their job. They get paid to play golf, and go where there is the most money.
Can’t really blame them.

 

[sunshine]

I think the main reason players are going to Saudi, China, the US, Dubai etc - all the backward, dodgy states - is that it’s their job. They get paid to play golf, and go where there is the most money.
Can’t really blame them.

No I disagree. They have a choice, their employer is not sending them there, they are independent contractors and can choose which events to play.

If I was offered a new job on double my salary in Saudi, I would decline. That's a personal choice.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So this is the same Mickleson that took $8mil in bonus payment from the PGA tour , and is now chasing the money in the middle east

Guess there are no mirrors in his house

 

[BiMGuy]

View attachment 40943

So this is the same Mickleson that took $8mil in bonus payment from the PGA tour , and is now chasing the money in the middle east

Guess there are no mirrors in his house

He’s got to pay the gambling debts somehow!

I’ve never understood the adulation he gets. The smile and swashbuckling style has always masked what lies underneath.

 

[nickh]

I felt a bit sad when I read your comment that "sport is implicitly immoral." You are correct, it is full of morally questionable characters, which is a tragedy because in its purest form there is something exceptionally noble about sport.

I tend to agree and feel that professional sport is implicitly immoral, as sport, after all began as a form of recreation away from the workplace. The sport, competitive instincts and the enjoyment came long before any money.
Now we have a situation where Phil Mick has scooped circa 8 million bucks through the PGA PiP ‘popularity contest’ and in his next breath has called out the PGA as being obnoxiously greedy.
You couldn’t make this sh1t up.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

View attachment 40943

So this is the same Mickleson that took $8mil in bonus payment from the PGA tour , and is now chasing the money in the middle east

Guess there are no mirrors in his house

Was it the Panama, or Paradise, Papers controversy, he was mixed up in ?