The all things EV chat thread

[Foxholer]

Yesterday was my first real experience of doing the sort of driving I regularly do in an EV, and I just found it utterly impractical. It’s all very well saying you can boost performance by driving in eco-mode, and with as many systems shut down as possible, but can someone explain to me how that is even remotely enjoyable?

Great for local stuff if your journeys are predominately short, but for any serious driving these cars are just a faff. I don’t want to be adding hours, and I do mean hours, onto an already long and tiring drive. Life is too short.

I have been a sceptic when it comes to EV’s from the start. Yesterday merely confirmed what I suspected all along. Until such time as ranges dramatically improve, and/or charging points become far more readily available, with far more rapid charging points, I won’t be touching one with a barge pole.

While I'm inclined to agree that EVs currently have limitations, I'm pretty certain that a sizeble amount of your experience was simply generated from the fear of getting stuck by running out of charge. I had a similar experience many years ago when I won the use of the (big) boss's Ferrari - and it was the automatic (400) model so supposedly more user-friendly - for a fortnight. By the 3rd day, I was a virtual wreck worrying about all the bad things that could happen to it/me. Not, initially, the experience I had contemplated and much of it persisted. Others reported the same/similar initial fears, but we all agreed that they moderated, to varying degrees, over time.
However, I've never seen EVs either broken down, nor on the back of lorries being recovered.
So I believe the fears are simply initial ones that are quickly overcome by procedures and practice and the routine becomes 2nd nature very quickly! That stated, a certain amount of planning/routine IS currently involved, so I can understand why many go for hybrids - which I'm not sure are the best oor worst of both worlds.

 

[Billysboots]

While I'm inclined to agree that EVs currently have limitations, I'm pretty certain that a sizeble amount of your experience was simply generated from the fear of getting stuck by running out of charge. I had a similar experience many years ago when I won the use of the (big) boss's Ferrari - and it was the automatic (400) model so supposedly more user-friendly - for a fortnight. By the 3rd day, I was a virtual wreck worrying about all the bad things that could happen to it/me. Not, initially, the experience I had contemplated and much of it persisted. Others reported the same/similar initial fears, but we all agreed that they moderated, to varying degrees, over time.
However, I've never seen EVs either broken down, nor on the back of lorries being recovered.
So I believe the fears are simply initial ones that are quickly overcome by procedures and practice and the routine becomes 2nd nature very quickly! That stated, a certain amount of planning/routine IS currently involved, so I can understand why many go for hybrids - which I'm not sure are the best oor worst of both worlds.

I don’t doubt there’s an element of that, and certainly the infrastructure doesn’t help to ease my concerns.

If I drove an EV regularly and on regular routes then I don’t doubt I would be more content to own one.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

While I'm inclined to agree that EVs currently have limitations, I'm pretty certain that a sizeble amount of your experience was simply generated from the fear of getting stuck by running out of charge. I had a similar experience many years ago when I won the use of the (big) boss's Ferrari - and it was the automatic (400) model so supposedly more user-friendly - for a fortnight. By the 3rd day, I was a virtual wreck worrying about all the bad things that could happen to it/me. Not, initially, the experience I had contemplated and much of it persisted. Others reported the same/similar initial fears, but we all agreed that they moderated, to varying degrees, over time.
However, I've never seen EVs either broken down, nor on the back of lorries being recovered.
So I believe the fears are simply initial ones that are quickly overcome by procedures and practice and the routine becomes 2nd nature very quickly! That stated, a certain amount of planning/routine IS currently involved, so I can understand why many go for hybrids - which I'm not sure are the best oor worst of both worlds.

My sister in laws car went into limp mode and then simply stopped a couple of weeks ago, a Ford Puma Hybrid. It was early evening but dark so I went to pick her up whilst the AA van was en route, then waited with her whilst it was being fixed. We got chatting about EV's, how are they changing his job etc. He said that he proportionately sees the same number as regular cars, frequently for the same problems. Run out of fuel / charge, flat batteries (the 12v ones, that the ones that propel the car), punctures.

I rarely see any car being towed away now, they are all just made better than they used to be.

 

[Foxholer]

My sister in laws car went into limp mode and then simply stopped a couple of weeks ago, a Ford Puma Hybrid. It was early evening but dark so I went to pick her up whilst the AA van was en route, then waited with her whilst it was being fixed. We got chatting about EV's, how are they changing his job etc. He said that he proportionately sees the same number as regular cars, frequently for the same problems. Run out of fuel / charge, flat batteries (the 12v ones, that the ones that propel the car), punctures.

I rarely see any car being towed away now, they are all just made better than they used to be.

Agreed. I think my 'never seen' was probably wrong! More likely 'haven't particularly noticed' would have been better/more correct.

 

[bobmac]

That pretty much sums it up ?

Please see post no. 2067

You do know in 2011, you could only buy one EV, a Nissan Leaf which had a range of about 80 miles on a good day, cost around £30,000 and there were around 1,500 chargers in the UK.
Today, there are more than 130 to choose from, many of which are well below £30,000 including the MG5 (250 mile range) and there are presently over 50,000 connectors.
Think where we'll be in another 8 years time.

 

[drdel]

While I'm inclined to agree that EVs currently have limitations, I'm pretty certain that a sizeble amount of your experience was simply generated from the fear of getting stuck by running out of charge. I had a similar experience many years ago when I won the use of the (big) boss's Ferrari - and it was the automatic (400) model so supposedly more user-friendly - for a fortnight. By the 3rd day, I was a virtual wreck worrying about all the bad things that could happen to it/me. Not, initially, the experience I had contemplated and much of it persisted. Others reported the same/similar initial fears, but we all agreed that they moderated, to varying degrees, over time.
However, I've never seen EVs either broken down, nor on the back of lorries being recovered.
So I believe the fears are simply initial ones that are quickly overcome by procedures and practice and the routine becomes 2nd nature very quickly! That stated, a certain amount of planning/routine IS currently involved, so I can understand why many go for hybrids - which I'm not sure are the best oor worst of both worlds.

I think it's just 'horses for courses'. We're 6 years into PHEV ownership which is ideal for our use pattern of mainly local trip (<60mls) with about fortnightly journeys of over 150 -200 mls. It gets charged overnight on the drive. The running costs are very low.

We do have a second petrol motor which is now rarely used unless we need two cars at the same time.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Please see post no. 2067

You do know in 2011, you could only buy one EV, a Nissan Leaf which had a range of about 80 miles on a good day, cost around £30,000 and there were around 1,500 chargers in the UK.
Today, there are more than 130 to choose from, many of which are well below £30,000 including the MG5 (250 mile range) and there are presently over 50,000 connectors.
Think where we'll be in another 8 years time.

I think this is one of the current problems though, we are being asked to take a leap of faith at this stage, 'build it and they will come'. A report came out in Northumberland last week which stated they only have 2% of the charges necessary to cope with the 2030 change. We are expected to believe that they will have everything in place by then (the report suggested that would be nigh on impossible incidentally). If govt / people want the public to buy into this then they need to stop expecting us to cross our fingers and hope things will be put into place. They need to actually put them in place, then come back and say, buy electric.

 

[bobmac]

And if you do run out of charge...

 

[bobmac]

I think this is one of the current problems though, we are being asked to take a leap of faith at this stage, 'build it and they will come'. A report came out in Northumberland last week which stated they only have 2% of the charges necessary to cope with the 2030 change. We are expected to believe that they will have everything in place by then (the report suggested that would be nigh on impossible incidentally). If govt / people want the public to buy into this then they need to stop expecting us to cross our fingers and hope things will be put into place. They need to actually put them in place, then come back and say, buy electric.

What is going to change in 2030?
The whole country isn't going to suddenly change to electric overnight.
Judging by the comments on here, some will never change to EV.
The only change in 2030 is you won't be able to buy a NEW ICE car.
If you want to stick with your petrol or diesel, please do so.

 

[Beezerk]

And if you do run out of charge...

View attachment 41921

As long as you don’t mind the 6 hour wait before he arrives ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

What is going to change in 2030?
The whole country isn't going to suddenly change to electric overnight.
Judging by the comments on here, some will never change to EV.
The only change in 2030 is you won't be able to buy a NEW ICE car.
If you want to stick with your petrol or diesel, please do so.

The whole system is clearly being pushed towards an electric conversion for that date. The govt / EU are hoping that the pressure of a dealine will focus all parties, mfrs, charger suppliers, consumers etc into converting. Pretending that is not the case is daft. Plenty will not swap, for all the usual reasons, but the pressure is there. As a consumer, I am allowed to be grumpy about being pushed into a corner when the infrastructure is clearly not there. It is not about whether I like electric cars or not, as it happens I love a quiet car so electric is right up my street, it is about a bodge happening before our very eyes whilst we are continuously being told 'don't worry, all will be fine'. I can almost feel my head being patted

 

[bobmac]

I can almost feel my head being patted

In 2029, if you think the infrastructure isn't there and the costs are still too high and the range isn't enough and the charging takes too long, don't buy one.
Buy a brand new ICE car in 2029 and keep it for 20 years if you want.
However I think by 2030 it will make more sense to buy an EV as all the new cars being released now will be very affordable 2nd hand

 

[road2ruin]

I don't think we need to be worried about the increase in EV's vs the number of charging units as you cannot get (a new one) for love nor money. I'm close to cancelling my order as they've just extended the delivery time to "At some point in 2022/2023"!!

 

[GreiginFife]

I'll get a taste of EV life on Friday. My car is going down south for some tweaking following a turbo replacement/upgrade and it will be away 10-15 days so I am being given a Ioniq as a loaner for the duration with a plug in charger (suppose that's slower than a "plugged in" one).

What will be interesting is testing the concept that whereever I am going there will be some form of charging available to keep me right.

It's an ugly thing though, but it's only for a week or so.

 

[PNWokingham]

Please see post no. 2067

You do know in 2011, you could only buy one EV, a Nissan Leaf which had a range of about 80 miles on a good day, cost around £30,000 and there were around 1,500 chargers in the UK.
Today, there are more than 130 to choose from, many of which are well below £30,000 including the MG5 (250 mile range) and there are presently over 50,000 connectors.
Think where we'll be in another 8 years time.

and in another 8 years if the infrastructure issues, cost of batteries and range are all in a different place, i will consider one, if circumstances permit. But no way at the moment

 

[cliveb]

The whole system is clearly being pushed towards an electric conversion for that date. The govt / EU are hoping that the pressure of a dealine will focus all parties, mfrs, charger suppliers, consumers etc into converting.

+1

As with pretty much all forms of social engineering, the government is using the stick instead of the carrot.
The carrot approach would be to heavily support the building of the necessary infrastructure so that owning an EV becomes a no-brainer.
But it's so much easier to just ban the sale of ICE cars.

 

[Jimaroid]

The plans for 2030 were made before pandemic, the resulting supply chain crisis and the situation in Ukraine all occured.

The 2030 plan will miss by a long way now because it's impossible to get silicon manufacturing back on schedule. Doesn't mean that I don't think we should try but the reality is it's all already a long way behind.

People investing under the impression that infrastructure will be vastly improved in the next 8 years are being mis-sold IMO.

 

[bobmac]

and in another 8 years if the infrastructure issues, cost of batteries and range are all in a different place, i will consider one, if circumstances permit. But no way at the moment

I have no problem with that as I've said many many times before, EVs don't suit everyone at the moment but hopefully in the not too distant future they will suit more and more.

People investing under the impression that infrastructure will be vastly improved in the next 8 years are being mis-sold IMO.

Who knows what the future will bring.
But as long as manufacturers keep making ICE cars, EVs won't come down in price.

 

[Fade and Die]

I regularly drive well in excess of the ranges of those vehicles, Bob. Even those with the longer ranges would be needing at least one charge during my day, bringing into play the issues I found yesterday.

Whilst there seems to be this halcyon view that EV ownership is a joy, the following are just some of the frustrations I found yesterday. Two rapid charging points in a pub car park, both in use, and impossible to find when they would be available in a pub packed with lunchtime drinkers and diners. Another facility badged on Google Maps as “BP”, which turned out to be in a multi-storey car park - I had the choice of moving on, or driving into the car park, finding the charging points in use, driving straight out again and paying £5 for the privilege. The charging points near a school, with parents on the school run queuing for a top-up. Or the best one of the lot, the “public” charging point which was actually behind a barrier at a police facility.

I have several apps on my phone which I have used previously to try and plan routes in EV’s, which I tried to use again yesterday. All carried a lot of misinformation, the net result being that you actually have to drive to the charging point before you can see firstly if it’s available and, secondly, if it’s even working. All of that whilst watching the range diminishing and a growing sense of what I have heard perfectly described as “range anxiety”!

Don’t get me wrong, yesterday’s car was a lovely drive. But the simple fact is that, regardless of what EV you can splurge the cash on (I see the Tesla Model S is upwards of £70k), you are going to encounter these issues when trying to find public charging points in unfamiliar locations. The network is still way too sporadic to encourage me to swap.

Spiralling prices aside, give me a good old petrol station any day of the week.

Ah….what you mean is the Real “real world” of traffic and deadlines where a 350 mile journey needs to take 5-6 Hrs not 5-6 hours plus two 50 minute top ups (have a coffee and a rest why don’t you ?)

I’ve weighed it up, getting a “long range” job and plotting my long journeys verses getting a city car and hiring when I go on long journeys and I think they are just not right for me. I’ve selfishly got my eye on a Volvo V60. 2L petrol, euro6 compliant, she’s a beauty and it’s only £305 per month. ?

 

[bobmac]

Ah….what you mean is the Real “real world” of traffic and deadlines where a 350 mile journey needs to take 5-6 Hrs not 5-6 hours plus two 50 minute top ups (have a coffee and a rest why don’t you ?)

I’ve weighed it up, getting a “long range” job and plotting my long journeys verses getting a city car and hiring when I go on long journeys and I think they are just not right for me. I’ve selfishly got my eye on a Volvo V60. 2L petrol, euro6 compliant, she’s a beauty and it’s only £305 per month. ?

If it suits your needs, perfect, go for it, nobody is stopping you.