Worlds gone mad

[FairwayDodger]

“Positive” discrimination is discrimination pure and simple. If you want to address the main issue you can’t resolve it by trying to get two wrongs to make a right. We need to get to a point where people are just people regardless of colour, religion, gender, age etc etc. We will never do that by discriminating in any way or favouring one group over another.
Calling a bad thing “positive” does not make it good.
Anyone who is in favour of “positive” discrimination is in favour of discrimination and is part of the problem.

Hence my reluctance to go off on this tangent. Some people are unable to think things through and see the shades of grey. Where discrimination already exists, positive discrimination might be a tool to tackle it? Let’s not argue the point but just consider that not everything is black and white.

 

[Sweep]

Hence my reluctance to go off on this tangent. Some people are unable to think things through and see the shades of grey. Where discrimination already exists, positive discrimination might be a tool to tackle it? Let’s not argue the point but just consider that not everything is black and white.

I agree it’s not a black and white issue but you can’t solve discrimination by discriminating. It flies in the face of the non-discrimination argument. It won’t be solved over night but favouring one group over another will just delay the resolution. “Positive”discrimination justifies “negative” discrimination. Why can you discriminate and I can’t? Is it because you are better than me? Or is it that you want your group favoured over others?

 

[FairwayDodger]

I agree it’s not a black and white issue but you can’t solve discrimination by discriminating. It flies in the face of the non-discrimination argument. It won’t be solved over night but favouring one group over another will just delay the resolution. “Positive”discrimination justifies “negative” discrimination. Why can you discriminate and I can’t? Is it because you are better than me? Or is it that you want your group favoured over others?

I don’t discriminate, but have often been discriminated against. As I keep trying to say, I don’t have a firm view on PD but it is easy for the beneficiaries of “negative” discrimination to object to the so-called “positive” version. In an ideal, equal world neither would happen but we are not there.

 

[Sweep]

I don’t discriminate, but have often been discriminated against. As I keep trying to say, I don’t have a firm view on PD but it is easy for the beneficiaries of “negative” discrimination to object to the so-called “positive” version. In an ideal, equal world neither would happen but we are not there.

And we won’t get there by bringing in more discrimination.

I knew I could get you to talk about it 😀

 

[Hobbit]

“Positive” discrimination is discrimination pure and simple. If you want to address the main issue you can’t resolve it by trying to get two wrongs to make a right. We need to get to a point where people are just people regardless of colour, religion, gender, age etc etc. We will never do that by discriminating in any way or favouring one group over another.
Calling a bad thing “positive” does not make it good.
Anyone who is in favour of “positive” discrimination is in favour of discrimination and is part of the problem.

A few years back the Met were keen to employ a number of ethnic minority police officers. Some might not have been as bright as others from different backgrounds, and maybe aren't as good as police officers but they connected better with the local ethnic minority communities. I don't 100% agree with it, perhaps feeling that its the attitudes in the community that need fixing, but I feel it was the best thing to do in the short term.

There is a place for positive discrimination but it has to be the last resort, or perhaps more importantly as part of a raft of measures.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Some good points being made without it getting silly.
Good to see people accepting that others are entitled to an opinion even if it differs to their own.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Some good points being made without it getting silly.
Good to see people accepting that others are entitled to an opinion even if it differs to their own.

It will never catch on.

 

[Hacker Khan]

A few years back the Met were keen to employ a number of ethnic minority police officers. Some might not have been as bright as others from different backgrounds, and maybe aren't as good as police officers but they connected better with the local ethnic minority communities. I don't 100% agree with it, perhaps feeling that its the attitudes in the community that need fixing, but I feel it was the best thing to do in the short term.

There is a place for positive discrimination but it has to be the last resort, or perhaps more importantly as part of a raft of measures.

I recently applied, after being encouraged to do, to be on a board of directors in an educational situation. And I was then declined as they already had their complement of 'white British males'. And that is the exact wording just about in their response, not me interpreting what they said. I would like to think I had the necessary skills and experience to do the role. But after a couple of minutes of huffing and puffing I kind of then thought that it was fair enough (as long as they subsequently do not take on another white British male), it is the first type of 'discrimination' I have ever suffered from to my knowledge and others have suffered much worse with much more severe consequences.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think the darts and F1 organisers should be applauded for what they are trying to achieve. The ladies are only there for one reason - to look nice , they are both sports so why does their need to be attractive ladies just standing around or walking next to someone ? What does it achieve in the grand scheme of things , why is it just ladies ? Is the sport struggling that much that they need to have a pretty girl just there for eye candy. I agree it is a shame that some of the ladies will lose income but I think that’s a price to pay to give out a better message.

I also don’t think they can be compared to cheerleaders who are there to do a specific job for their team.

As for positive discrimination- I think at times it’s something that needs to happen to help balance things up - if all things were equal and there was no “negative” discrimination then there would be no need for positive discrimination

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

What about beauty pageants, will they be abolished as well? Do they serve any purpose other than to please the male eye?

Supermodels......40 year old women with muffin tops over their tracksuit bottoms?

 

[Hacker Khan]

What about beauty pageants, will they be abolished as well? Do they serve any purpose other than to please the male eye?

Supermodels......40 year old women with muffin tops over their tracksuit bottoms?

I am not sure if you can see Miss World on TV any more, where as it used to be on a lot when I was growing up. The big ones that are left are rebranding themselves and getting involved in education and charity work. http://missamerica.org/about-us/

Yes I am sure you still need to be pretty to get anywhere in it and there is still a large element of women being judged on their looks, but at least they are making an effort for the winner to then do something useful in society, i.e. they have a role and responsibilities other than purely just being there to look good.

 

[Hobbit]

What about beauty pageants, will they be abolished as well? Do they serve any purpose other than to please the male eye?

Supermodels......40 year old women with muffin tops over their tracksuit bottoms?

Just read an interesting article in which one of the Kawasaki grid girls put her POV. Basically, she doesn't want to lose her job. She, along with a number of the GG's, is degree qualified and has made the choice of career because she loves the superbike buzz. Some of her contemporaries are doctors, accountants and a solicitor. Its their weekend job, which they love. She 'spoke' eloquently, better than I, about why she does it and also of the code of conduct that exists in her industry to protect them from any laddish behaviour.

I'm not bothered either way about them being on the grid but I would question whether or not things are shifting too far.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

I think the darts and F1 organisers should be applauded for what they are trying to achieve. The ladies are only there for one reason - to look nice , they are both sports so why does their need to be attractive ladies just standing around or walking next to someone ? What does it achieve in the grand scheme of things , why is it just ladies ? Is the sport struggling that much that they need to have a pretty girl just there for eye candy. I agree it is a shame that some of the ladies will lose income but I think that’s a price to pay to give out a better message.

I also don’t think they can be compared to cheerleaders who are there to do a specific job for their team.

As for positive discrimination- I think at times it’s something that needs to happen to help balance things up - if all things were equal and there was no “negative” discrimination then there would be no need for positive discrimination

It's the heads of sport at sky,BBC,itv the who making these PC decisions not the sports themselves.

what's this "better message" you seem to think it'll send out? Those girls aren't exactly forced to be walk on girls, they do it because they want to.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It's the heads of sport at sky,BBC,itv the who making these PC decisions not the sports themselves.

what's this "better message" you seem to think it'll send out? Those girls aren't exactly forced to be walk on girls, they do it because they want to.

That they can look for more in life than to just stand there and be eye candy - wasn’t the Grid girls decision made by the owners of F1 ?

Yes the girls want to do - just like they want to be plastered all over the Daily Sport or Nuts and Zoo - earning money but doesn’t mean it’s not demeaning to females. I suspect the ladies look on it as a step up to other things.

What do they exactly add to the sport ? What is their purpose - it’s supposed to be sport after all as opposed to a parade of pretty ladies.

 

[Beezerk]

That they can look for more in life than to just stand there and be eye candy - wasn’t the Grid girls decision made by the owners of F1 ?

Yes the girls want to do - just like they want to be plastered all over the Daily Sport or Nuts and Zoo - earning money but doesn’t mean it’s not demeaning to females. I suspect the ladies look on it as a step up to other things.

What do they exactly add to the sport ? What is their purpose - it’s supposed to be sport after all as opposed to a parade of pretty ladies.

I gather they do much more behind the scenes than what you just see on tv. Meet and greets, talking sport to the fans etc, apparently their knowledge of F1 is top notch. Not just a pretty face at all.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I gather they do much more behind the scenes than what you just see on tv. Meet and greets, talking sport to the fans etc, apparently their knowledge of F1 is top notch. Not just a pretty face at all.

And if the sport require people to meet and greet people and speak to the fans I expect them to employ people and that selection to be based on their abilities as opposed to their looks - you didn’t ever see a grid girl who wasn’t pretty did you so it’s safe to say why they got that job based on their looks

 

[Beezerk]

And if the sport require people to meet and greet people and speak to the fans I expect them to employ people and that selection to be based on their abilities as opposed to their looks - you didn’t ever see a grid girl who wasn’t pretty did you so it’s safe to say why they got that job based on their looks

Blimey you’re hard work.
I recall all the dolly birds at The Open the other year, they’ll need laying off as well I assume.

 

[Pin-seeker]

And if the sport require people to meet and greet people and speak to the fans I expect them to employ people and that selection to be based on their abilities as opposed to their looks - you didn’t ever see a grid girl who wasn’t pretty did you so it’s safe to say why they got that job based on their looks

Do you still watch Strictly to see women in Little clothing as you’ve stated in the past?

 

[Sweep]

I recently applied, after being encouraged to do, to be on a board of directors in an educational situation. And I was then declined as they already had their complement of 'white British males'. And that is the exact wording just about in their response, not me interpreting what they said. I would like to think I had the necessary skills and experience to do the role. But after a couple of minutes of huffing and puffing I kind of then thought that it was fair enough (as long as they subsequently do not take on another white British male), it is the first type of 'discrimination' I have ever suffered from to my knowledge and others have suffered much worse with much more severe consequences.

I can just imagine them writing a letter saying that they had reached their quota of non white non British males. They would have been court in days and rightly so.
I can see how that serves diversification, but it doesn’t help solve discrimination.

 

[Hobbit]

If grid girls are to be banned should bin men also be banned? Where do you draw the line between what is and what isn't an acceptable occupation?