Lazkir
Head Pro
Ahh fair enough, I read it in the wrong context.. I do know that F1 was trying to get it's first female driver not so long ago. Probably still is.
Worlds gone mad
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Ahh fair enough, I read it in the wrong context.. I do know that F1 was trying to get it's first female driver not so long ago. Probably still is.
IanM
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Its' a funny one, there are some excellent women drivers about... remember Sabine Schmitz, overtaking motorbikes in a transit on the Nurburgring on Top Gear! VBH is no mug either... but F1 is different gravy and hard enough to blokes to get in... and stop watches don't lie so no reason why one shouldn't get there.
I read a spat in Twitter last night, one of the ladies who lost her job was getting pretty angry. A "male feminist" (as he called himself) said he didn't want her to be exploited and there were other jobs she could do. . She asked him if he thought feminism was about any man telling any woman what jobs she "should be doing."
You can see where this is going....
In other news today, a gallery in Manchester has removed some 400 year old paintings as they are objectifying women. I guess the book burning starts on Monday.
I read a spat in Twitter last night, one of the ladies who lost her job was getting pretty angry. A "male feminist" (as he called himself) said he didn't want her to be exploited and there were other jobs she could do. . She asked him if he thought feminism was about any man telling any woman what jobs she "should be doing."
You can see where this is going....
In other news today, a gallery in Manchester has removed some 400 year old paintings as they are objectifying women. I guess the book burning starts on Monday.
Cherry13
Head Pro
F1 had its first female driver in the 70s. Lella Lombardi actually scored a point or two as well.
F1 plans are to make the grids more celebratory of the area where they are racing. So you might still see women on the grid, whether they be dancers or performers, or anything else for that matter. But they’ve just took the approach that grid girls is outdated and doesn’t bring anything of value. A view I agree with entirely. Sponsors will still likely have models, there’ll still be plenty of glamorous people around as well.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
I get the whole "women as adornments in sport" is not good, but women telling other women what professions are and are not acceptable in the interests of feminism is just ... 😂😂😂
From twitter
From twitter
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User20205
Money List Winner
I’m still on the fence pretty much, but removing grid girls doesn’t automatically increase participation etc there still won’t be any women’s sport on TV. It’s not an either or, why not a both?
It doesn’t sit well me either that you get feminist sympathising men telling women what professions they can do. Doesn’t sound much like feminism to me.
D
Deleted member 18121
Guest
not sure if anyone saw the darts last night..... the walk on girls were gone, but the cheerleaders were still there dancing in crop tops and tiny skirts at all intervals.
So the outcome of the story is that women are allowed to wear next to nothing as long as its for a profession, but they're not allowed to be moderately dressed for glamour reasoning.
So the outcome of the story is that women are allowed to wear next to nothing as long as its for a profession, but they're not allowed to be moderately dressed for glamour reasoning.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I am not sure it is purely in the interests of 'feminism', unless you class wanting women to have better role models and better aspirations in life as 'feminism'. Still, I suppose it's better than calling it PC gone mad.
You can reduce any societal value judgement down to that if you want and say 'you can't have someone telling someone else what is acceptable or not'. Where as that is how society evolves, judgements are made on what is or is not acceptable and should be done. It is not the same as saying women can't be lawyers or doctors or cleaners or indeed any job where they are performing a defined skill or task. Not sure how many pit girls there are globally or darts walk on girls, but I imagine it is not exactly destroying the aspirational career paths of many young women.
There will still be many many opportunities for attractive men and women to use those attributes to get on in life. That never will disappear and this is not why this is being done, it isn't an comment on attractive women, it is about the role of women at these type of events and the image that portrays.
I do understand the point behind getting rid of the grid girls, and in truth I'm not fussed either way about their inclusion/exclusion. Equally, if a beautiful woman was stood next to a Chippendale on the grid... why not?
As for role models, I get that and it was certainly something that my previous employer was keen to promote but how can a brain surgeon(role model) make someone who has one GCSE feel equal... or worse still, inferior. My own experience of working with surgeons is they might be some of the brightest people but some of them are short on manners. You don't have to have an IQ of 150 to be a role model.
On a wider note, as the societal norm is being recalibrated do we even know what its being recalibrated to? Is it a constant evolving thing, and will it rebound too far? Who knows.
As for role models, I get that and it was certainly something that my previous employer was keen to promote but how can a brain surgeon(role model) make someone who has one GCSE feel equal... or worse still, inferior. My own experience of working with surgeons is they might be some of the brightest people but some of them are short on manners. You don't have to have an IQ of 150 to be a role model.
On a wider note, as the societal norm is being recalibrated do we even know what its being recalibrated to? Is it a constant evolving thing, and will it rebound too far? Who knows.
bobmac
Major Champion
I wonder if there will be any cheer leaders at the Superbowl on Sunday
ADB
Journeyman Pro
I hope so, talented and athletic gymnasts at the top of their game - aspirational to young women I would argue and entertainment for the crowd. If the difference cant be seen between these and the walk-on girls/F1 pit girls, the point has been completely missed.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Can’t believe there are still people who think this is about clothes. Or that it’s a black and white, right and wrong issue. It’s not but sadly there seem too few who are able to take a step back and actually think about it.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
I was having a long and interesting (drunken) political debate recently with a lass who was a big Socialist, I dropped in the suggestion that the Weinstein story would have a greater impact on society in the future. I couldn't really explain why, it was just a hunch I had on the back of how I perceived the media were now reporting certain types of stories.
The snowball effect may be starting, but your'e right, we don't know how far it will go and when it will end, if at all. The seeds are now well and truly planted in the psyche of the general public.
Dasit
Tour Rookie
It is about people having the right to do what profession they please, that is of course within the law.
It is not for one group of people to define what is or is not acceptable for consenting adults to do.
Personal freedoms are vital. These women can earn a lot of money using their best assets, they should be allowed to do it.
Crazyface
Tour Winner
Excellent question!!!!!! Why isn't darts mixed? I used to play in a mixed league and won an individual final against a female "county" player.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Crazyface
Tour Winner
LOL
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
That’s definitely one aspect of it and valid points. Now, just as an experiment, see if you can understand the opposing view and why some people might tend to think it outweighs these concerns?
I can't believe you can't believe. Age has to be considered in the debate. Some on here will be 60+ years into living with grid girls, not literarily.
I've just come off the phone from my ex-boss - I retired last Friday. After 5 months of searching for a replacement they've finally found someone. His first words, "we've found a replacement, and its a woman." I cringed that he felt it was necessary to mention gender. Him and I had a discussion last week on diversity. I don't see gender, nor colour, nor religion, nor physical attributes. I just see personality and ability. However, what I don't like is positive discrimination, i.e. where the second best person gets the job because they fall into a minority.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Brian, I know that you usually “get it†and can see the shades of grey in most debates. Positive discrimination is a bit of a tangent, don’t think I want to go there really, but another nuanced subject I think. Possibly a necessary evil in some circumstances, I don’t know. Another subject I don’t have a firm view on. 
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
“Positive†discrimination is discrimination pure and simple. If you want to address the main issue you can’t resolve it by trying to get two wrongs to make a right. We need to get to a point where people are just people regardless of colour, religion, gender, age etc etc. We will never do that by discriminating in any way or favouring one group over another.Brian, I know that you usually “get it†and can see the shades of grey in most debates. Positive discrimination is a bit of a tangent, don’t think I want to go there really, but another nuanced subject I think. Possibly a necessary evil in some circumstances, I don’t know. Another subject I don’t have a firm view on.
Calling a bad thing “positive†does not make it good.
Anyone who is in favour of “positive†discrimination is in favour of discrimination and is part of the problem.
