World Handicap System

[Swango1980]

Or we don’t have serial NRers - run reports regularly on the level of NR’s - most we saw in one year was 3 from one person

But if someone just wants to give up then when they are playing badly then I won’t ever have an issue with it

You wouldn't be doing your job properly as a handicap secretary though, but I guess you can take the moral high ground

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You wouldn't be doing your job properly as a handicap secretary though, but I guess you can take the moral high ground

Or because I’m a golfer first I can understand why at times people just want to jack in a round or walk in or just pick up.

 

[Swango1980]

The Secretary read them chapter and verse of the Player's Responsibilities according to the bible of CONGU.

I've just sent out a General Email to all members today about ensuring they return general play scores, and that scores will be deleted if there is evidence pre-registration occurred just before score entry.

If general play scores are not returned, I will enter a high penalty score. And, if a player does this multiple times, then e-mail them directly to start give them a first gentle reminder not to do this.

 

[Swango1980]

Or because I’m a golfer first I can understand why at times people just want to jack in a round or walk in or just pick up.

I understand WHY they walk in. Doesn't make it right, which you would know if you ever read the guidance in WHS. A handicap secretary would go to that effort and understand why the responsibility is there.

 

[williamalex1]

My name is Billy and I'm a serial NRer.
And I will continue to NR whenever I feel I can't complete a full round. I ALWAYS RETURN MY CARD .
WTF are you to tell me to keep on playing when I don't feel up to it.
It's only a game.

 

[Swango1980]

My name is Billy and I'm a serial NRer.
And I will continue to NR whenever I feel I can't complete a full round. I ALWAYS RETURN MY CARD .
WTF are you to tell me to keep on playing when I don't feel up to it.
It's only a game.

Put your query to England Golf. Just play without a handicap if you feel that strongly about it. It is only a game, don't worry about it

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I understand WHY they walk in. Doesn't make it right, which you would know if you ever read the guidance in WHS. A handicap secretary would go to that effort and understand why the responsibility is there.

So are you really going to tell someone they are wrong because they didn’t “try their best” on a round on every hole - if someone said that to me I would tell them to do one and I’ll continue to play the game for enjoyment and if I’m not enjoying it then I won’t complete a hole or a round or will walk in when it’s pouring with rain because it’s not my job.

 

[Swango1980]

So are you really going to tell someone they are wrong because they didn’t “try their best” on a round on every hole - if someone said that to me I would tell them to do one and I’ll continue to play the game for enjoyment and if I’m not enjoying it then I won’t complete a hole or a round or will walk in when it’s pouring with rain because it’s not my job.

Go for it, you can do it without a handicap though as the club may require to suspend it.

Remember, we are talking about people who persistently NR by just giving up on round, not those who pick up on a hole but continue playing and submit score.

If we get the former player, it adds to the work the comp sec and handicap sec have to do to sort it out, find the score if they can, contact player and determine penalty score if required. So, I have ZERO sympathy for a player who has been unable to deal with his poor performance emotionally, and spat his dummy out and just quit and no returned.

If a player does this more than once, then suspending their handicap will do them a favour, as it will take them out of a stressful situation they clearly cannot deal with. If suspension of handicap hurts their feelings, maybe they should just grow up and accept their responsibilities.

I'm happy to give some gentle warnings to players early on, as virtually every person who NRs simply do not realise they need to submit score. And I am sure virtually every golfer will have no issue. If an individual wants to make a fuss, then I they can take it up with England Golf

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Go for it, you can do it without a handicap though as the club may require to suspend it.

Remember, we are talking about people who persistently NR by just giving up on round, not those who pick up on a hole but continue playing and submit score.

If we get the former player, it adds to the work the comp sec and handicap sec have to do to sort it out, find the score if they can, contact player and determine penalty score if required. So, I have ZERO sympathy for a player who has been unable to deal with his poor performance emotionally, and spat his dummy out and just quit and no returned.

If a player does this more than once, then suspending their handicap will do them a favour, as it will take them out of a stressful situation they clearly cannot deal with. If suspension of handicap hurts their feelings, maybe they should just grow up and accept their responsibilities.

I'm happy to give some gentle warnings to players early on, as virtually every person who NRs simply do not realise they need to submit score. And I am sure virtually every golfer will have no issue. If an individual wants to make a fuss, then I they can take it up with England Golf

Are you not talking about “not returning the scorecard” as opposed to a Nil Return (NR)

And suspending someone’s handicap because they NR twice ??

And trust me if someone did go to England Golf because someone who is a fan of the rules as opposed to the sport decided to suspend their handicap then I have no doubt that England Golf would overturn it

For years golf has an image of being stuffy and full of rules and rules - we have a great opportunity of improving the image and this thread just shows me that a lot of clubs have a long way to go to get beyond the rule book and look at the sport.

Some people need to understand why we play this game - enjoyment and as a hobby .

 

[Beedee]

I played with a guy who would happily lose a ball and NR rather than play a provisional- even though I did suggest a provisional would be sensible.
no accounting for some folk

Did they NR or did they NR?
I'll happily NR a hole in a medal. It really doesn't bother me at all. In fact it really annoys me that some people I've played with don't NR holes in medals. They're miles away from winning the comp, so just pick and move on!!
However, I've never NR'ed a round by either not returning a card at all, or by putting a zero for every hole after my blow up. I've always recorded tried to score the best I could on every hole after my blow up and recorded it accordingly.

We really need to come up with different terms for an NR as opposed to an NR!

 

[Swango1980]

Are you not talking about “not returning the scorecard” as opposed to a Nil Return (NR)

And suspending someone’s handicap because they NR twice ??

And trust me if someone did go to England Golf because someone who is a fan of the rules as opposed to the sport decided to suspend their handicap then I have no doubt that England Golf would overturn it

For years golf has an image of being stuffy and full of rules and rules - we have a great opportunity of improving the image and this thread just shows me that a lot of clubs have a long way to go to get beyond the rule book and look at the sport.

Some people need to understand why we play this game - enjoyment and as a hobby .

I went to the WHS workshop hosted by England Golf. Not only did they insist we have disciplinary procedures for persistent no returns, they requested they would be happy to directly support clubs in any individual cases

Do you think England Golf would bot support a club applying their own directions in the WHS manual?

Seems to have hit a nerve with you. We will definitely not suspend a handicap after 2 unreasonable NRs, but the player will have been warned by that point. If it continues, then they deserve what they get.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I went to the WHS workshop hosted by England Golf. Not only did they insist we have disciplinary procedures for persistent no returns, they requested they would be happy to directly support clubs in any individual cases

Do you think England Golf would bot support a club applying their own directions in the WHS manual?

Seems to have hit a nerve with you. We will definitely not suspend a handicap after 2 unreasonable NRs, but the player will have been warned by that point. If it continues, then they deserve what they get.

So I’ll say it again as you appeared to have ignored it

You seem to be talking about players not returning a score card as opposed to NRing ?

Two different circumstances

 

[rulefan]

Or we don’t have serial NRers - run reports regularly on the level of NR’s - most we saw in one year was 3 from one person

But if someone just wants to give up then when they are playing badly then I won’t ever have an issue with it

Aren't poor scores as important as good scores in any handicapping system?
With all those vanity handicappers does your club win many matches ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Aren't poor scores as important as good scores in any handicapping system?
With all those vanity handicappers does your club win many matches ?

What vanity handicaps ? is an NR not a poor score then when added to a handicap record

We had four players NR today in the competition. None of them cares about any vanity handicap or is looking to manipulate their handicap

 

[Swango1980]

So I’ll say it again as you appeared to have ignored it

You seem to be talking about players not returning a score card as opposed to NRing ?

Two different circumstances

You continually seem to suggest you are happy if someone quits the round because they had a bad day on the course. In other words, just stopped playing. That is not a valid reason. I have continually said that, and I have continually said there is no issue in picking up on a hole, or multiple holes if you are having a disaster on them.

So, you are either ignoring me, or are in a complete muddle with your argument.

Are you having a non argument? To clarify, if a player had a disaster on the 14th, and just gave up and quit the round, would you be OK with that. Would you give them a warning, especially if no card was submitted?

 

[rulefan]

What vanity handicaps ? is an NR not a poor score then when added to a handicap record

We had four players NR today in the competition. None of them cares about any vanity handicap or is looking to manipulate their handicap

You identified an issue a few posts ago. I'm talking about players who don't bother to return their card or walk in early simply because of a couple of blobs. Essentially 7.1b

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You continually seem to suggest you are happy if someone quits the round because they had a bad day on the course. In other words, just stopped playing. That is not a valid reason. I have continually said that, and I have continually said there is no issue in picking up on a hole, or multiple holes if you are having a disaster on them.

So, you are either ignoring me, or are in a complete muddle with your argument.

Are you having a non argument? To clarify, if a player had a disaster on the 14th, and just gave up and quit the round, would you be OK with that. Would you give them a warning, especially if no card was submitted?

Again two separate issues in regards someone who NR’s because they are having a mate and someone who fails to submit his card into the box on and on the PSI etc

If someone quit the round halfway through because he was playing that badly it wasn’t enjoyable then no I would not “warn” him - because I am a golfer I would fully sympathise with him just like I did today when someone quit after going around the front 9 - 18 shots worse than his handicap.

No one is forced to keep on playing

 

[Swango1980]

Again two separate issues in regards someone who NR’s because they are having a mate and someone who fails to submit his card into the box on and on the PSI etc

If someone quit the round halfway through because he was playing that badly it wasn’t enjoyable then no I would not “warn” him - because I am a golfer I would fully sympathise with him just like I did today when someone quit after going around the front 9 - 18 shots worse than his handicap.

No one is forced to keep on playing

Well then you would not be fit to be a handicap secretary. But that is fine, not cut out for everyone.

What would you do if a player had 13 NRs in 20 rounds (no return of card at all). How would you calculate their Index?

What would you do if a player regularly NRed on a bad day, thus keeping themselves a lower Index that they'd have if they submitted all scores?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well then you would not be fit to be a handicap secretary. But that is fine, not cut out for everyone.

What would you do if a player had 13 NRs in 20 rounds (no return of card at all). How would you calculate their Index?

What would you do if a player regularly NRed on a bad day, thus keeping themselves a lower Index that they'd have if they submitted all scores?

Thankfully I’m not a member at a club with yourself as handicap secretary- can just imagine having a complete meltdown and hating the game , walking away and some over officious rules wannabe tells me “you must try your best” or I’m taking your handicap from you

And why would I worry about scenarios above when I don’t have members who do that

You have a really poor outlook on club golfers.

As I said - some are fans of the sport , some are fans of the rules

 

[Jimaroid]

That is not a valid reason.

Are valid reason(s) defined in the rules? What are they? I’d like to know.