World Handicap System

Jimaroid

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Thank you.

I take it that rule 7.1b s this the correct rule then? As I’ve read it, if I withdraw due to illness, injury or emergency before I’ve played 10 holes out of 18, no penalty score or disciplinary action should be taken. Useful to know.


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ger147

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Under the old system, nothing. Both a 0.1 increase, no problem.

Under WHS, Committee need to find the missing score and find out why it wasnt returned. If score not found, a penalty score needs to be determined, and that depends on what Committee think the reason for the NR was. If scores are not returned persistently, then it can become more problematic with a true handicap.

What missing scorecard???

In the post you are replying to, the scorecard was returned and the scores entered into the computer...
 

Swango1980

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What missing scorecard???

In the post you are replying to, the scorecard was returned and the scores entered into the computer...
OK, this debate is going off track a little, so perhaps the context of previous posts have been missed, and the type of No Return we are talking about. Just to reiterate what I have said, blobbing a hole because a player had a nightmare is no issue at all. The issue is not returning your score OR failing to complete the round. Rather than use my own words, the following is directly out of the WHS manual:

"The Handicap Committee or the Authorized Association should consider disciplinary procedures for players who repeatedly fail to submit their scores or who fail to complete rounds."

So, handing in a scorecard, in which the player has failed to complete the round, is not a get out of jail free card for the player. If this is done repeatedly then WHS suggests the above. The following section (7.1c) states:

"The Handicap Committee, or Authorized Association, should withdraw the Handicap Index of a player who deliberately or repeatedly fails to comply with the player’s responsibilities under the Rules of Handicapping (see Appendix A)."

Part of Appendix A states:

"Attempt to make the best score possible at each hole."

Under the previous system, there was no need to discipline a player for a no return (some clubs did apparently), if the player had a nightmare round they'd just get 0.1 back on handicap. No difference in submitting their poor score. Personally, I was happy with this. But, WHS does not work the same way, and therefore the handicap authority have had to include the above within the manual to ensure players act within their responsibilities.

Last thing I ever want to do is discipline a player, and before that ever happens they will get several friendly messages asking them to complete their rounds and submit scores, whether they had a blobbed hole or not. Given the hundreds of hours I've personally had to spend over the last 18 months with handicaps, I don't think it is a tough ask for players to do this? If a particularly stubborn member was to continually refuse to do what is asked, it is clear they have no respect for the Committee that run competitions and administer their handicaps for them. So, they should not expect much respect in return.
 

ger147

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OK, this debate is going off track a little, so perhaps the context of previous posts have been missed, and the type of No Return we are talking about. Just to reiterate what I have said, blobbing a hole because a player had a nightmare is no issue at all. The issue is not returning your score OR failing to complete the round. Rather than use my own words, the following is directly out of the WHS manual:

"The Handicap Committee or the Authorized Association should consider disciplinary procedures for players who repeatedly fail to submit their scores or who fail to complete rounds."

So, handing in a scorecard, in which the player has failed to complete the round, is not a get out of jail free card for the player. If this is done repeatedly then WHS suggests the above. The following section (7.1c) states:

"The Handicap Committee, or Authorized Association, should withdraw the Handicap Index of a player who deliberately or repeatedly fails to comply with the player’s responsibilities under the Rules of Handicapping (see Appendix A)."

Part of Appendix A states:

"Attempt to make the best score possible at each hole."

Under the previous system, there was no need to discipline a player for a no return (some clubs did apparently), if the player had a nightmare round they'd just get 0.1 back on handicap. No difference in submitting their poor score. Personally, I was happy with this. But, WHS does not work the same way, and therefore the handicap authority have had to include the above within the manual to ensure players act within their responsibilities.

Last thing I ever want to do is discipline a player, and before that ever happens they will get several friendly messages asking them to complete their rounds and submit scores, whether they had a blobbed hole or not. Given the hundreds of hours I've personally had to spend over the last 18 months with handicaps, I don't think it is a tough ask for players to do this? If a particularly stubborn member was to continually refuse to do what is asked, it is clear they have no respect for the Committee that run competitions and administer their handicaps for them. So, they should not expect much respect in return.

I know all of that, it is you who is confusing yourself.

The specific post I replied to, you were referring to a missing scorecard that was not missing.

Happy to help.
 

Jimaroid

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I'm still trying wrap my brain around this.

I can play reasonably well outward nine, then for some reason find myself unable to complete a round. But I'd end up recording a lifetime "best" score. Surely this is madness?

ScalingUp.png
 

jim8flog

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I'm still trying wrap my brain around this.

I can play reasonably well outward nine, then for some reason find myself unable to complete a round. But I'd end up recording a lifetime "best" score. Surely this is madness?

View attachment 36448
Do you mean that you stop playing after 9 holes or do you mean you stop playing well?

If the former the boxes apply if the latter it does not.
 

Jimaroid

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Do you mean that you stop playing after 9 holes or do you mean you stop playing well?

OK. I play well for the outward nine. I finish the 10th hole but become unwell and am unable to complete my round.

What happens?

The way I understand this is that the score is submitted and is "scaled up" to be one of the best rounds in my WHS record. I've improved by not playing.
 
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OK. I play well for the outward nine. I finish the 10th hole but become unwell and am unable to complete my round.

What happens?

The way I understand this is that the score is submitted and is "scaled up" to be one of the best rounds in my WHS record. I've improved by not playing.
Well, it’s a crazy system, that wasn’t really needed, and most people don’t seem to understand...but hey, that’s progress ?
 

Blue in Munich

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“Jobs for the boys”, I imagine.
People have to keep themselves in employment!

Well I'm still trying to see what the benefits are? :unsure:

I've read the one about how much more accurate my handicap is likely to be in the USA; shame I won't be going anywhere near an international flight for some time. What are the other benefits, apart from having to read a set of log tables to work out what I'm playing off?
 

jim8flog

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OK. I play well for the outward nine. I finish the 10th hole but become unwell and am unable to complete my round.

What happens?

The way I understand this is that the score is submitted and is "scaled up" to be one of the best rounds in my WHS record. I've improved by not playing.

Looks like you will just have to soldier on. Tee off on each hole pick and not finish the hole and you will get nett double bogey for each hole.;)
 

jim8flog

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Well I'm still trying to see what the benefits are? :unsure:

I've read the one about how much more accurate my handicap is likely to be in the USA; shame I won't be going anywhere near an international flight for some time. What are the other benefits, apart from having to read a set of log tables to work out what I'm playing off?

I see the declining player playing to a handicap that suits their ability rather than the old system where you only got to that by Handicap review and rather reluctantly by some handicap committee members.

On a personal note I have seen an increase of 3 shots which would never have happened on the old system or by the time it had I would probably need 5 shots.
 

Swango1980

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Well I'm still trying to see what the benefits are? :unsure:

I've read the one about how much more accurate my handicap is likely to be in the USA; shame I won't be going anywhere near an international flight for some time. What are the other benefits, apart from having to read a set of log tables to work out what I'm playing off?
The biggest benefit is accounting for relative difference between golfers. In old system, imagine a scratch golfer and 25 handicapper playing at same course, that is a very long hard course. The scratch golfer may just about accept the 25 shots he is giving the other guy.

But, they then go and play another course. Very short and relatively easy. Less yardage for the high handicapper to mess up compared to the scratch golfer. The scratch golfer may feel very disheartened at giving this guy 25 shots now.

With WHS, the guy who gets 25 shots at the very hard course may only get 20 shots when they go and play the easier course. That is the advantage of it.

But, there are a lot of bits to it that are definitely more confusing to golfers than before, and probably more of a nuisance. Hopefully they refine it over time, my personal opinion.
 

Jimaroid

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Looks like you will just have to soldier on. Tee off on each hole pick and not finish the hole and you will get nett double bogey for each hole.;)

Except my obligation as a player to “make the best possible score at each hole” is done by not playing.
 
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