World Handicap System

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Apologies for checking again - but once more today on 1st tee my four ball had a debate on calculating shots given/received in a 4BBB match and once more I was outvoted 3-1.

My view was that each of the four of us calculates our PH as 90% of our CH. Shots received by each player is then the full difference of each player’s PH and the lowest PH of the four.

The others said we difference in full each player‘s CH and the lowest CH, then for each player we calculate shots received as 90% of that difference.

Who was right - me or the three others - or is the outcome always the same and so it doesn’t matter.

Sorry for asking again. Just getting a bit frustrated and stupid if I am still getting it wrong.
 

Swango1980

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Jul 22, 2019
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Apologies for checking again - but once more today on 1st tee my four ball had a debate on calculating shots given/received in a 4BBB match and once more I was outvoted 3-1.

My view was that each of the four of us calculates our PH as 90% of our CH. Shots received by each player is then the full difference of each player’s PH and the lowest PH of the four.

The others said we difference in full each player‘s CH and the lowest CH, then for each player we calculate shots received as 90% of that difference.

Who was right - me or the three others - or is the outcome always the same and so it doesn’t matter.

Sorry for asking again. Just getting a bit frustrated and stupid if I am still getting it wrong.
You were right, they were wrong. They were doing it the pre WHS way

Ultimately the calculation is the same, but because you now do the 90% bit first and the difference after, you can get a different end answer due to rounding.
 
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Dec 24, 2018
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Apologies for checking again - but once more today on 1st tee my four ball had a debate on calculating shots given/received in a 4BBB match and once more I was outvoted 3-1.

My view was that each of the four of us calculates our PH as 90% of our CH. Shots received by each player is then the full difference of each player’s PH and the lowest PH of the four.

The others said we difference in full each player‘s CH and the lowest CH, then for each player we calculate shots received as 90% of that difference.

Who was right - me or the three others - or is the outcome always the same and so it doesn’t matter.

Sorry for asking again. Just getting a bit frustrated and stupid if I am still getting it wrong.
It winds me up to hear my PPs suggest that it makes no difference which way we calculate the 90% in 4BBB matchplay. It matters. Played yesterday and calculated correctly, I only had to give one PP 3 shots instead of the 4 shots he wanted ”using the traditional way”. Whenever a PP comments on a rule ‘we don’t do that’ or similar, my response is , well if you don’t want to play to all the rules, then I’m not going to play to the one that requires you to count all your shots!

(standing by for the post ‘Then you’d be DQ’d)
 

Swango1980

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It winds me up to hear my PPs suggest that it makes no difference which way we calculate the 90% in 4BBB matchplay. It matters. Played yesterday and calculated correctly, I only had to give one PP 3 shots instead of the 4 shots he wanted ”using the traditional way”. Whenever a PP comments on a rule ‘we don’t do that’ or similar, my response is , well if you don’t want to play to all the rules, then I’m not going to play to the one that requires you to count all your shots!

(standing by for the post ‘Then you’d be DQ’d)
I think I might print Pages 95-97 from the WHS manual, make sure they are in my golf bag before any fourball match. If anyone wants to argue how it is done, I can show them this extract that provides 2 worked examples.

Although, the fact I am handicap sec might help my side of the argument.
 
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I admit that in our roll-up games I have so far been a coward and copped out of explaining this to my fellow seniors, but it will have to be tackled before any formal competitions.
Our Seniors Captain has agreed to reiterate the correct calculation when he welcomes the visiting team in the future.
 
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Apologies for checking again - but once more today on 1st tee my four ball had a debate on calculating shots given/received in a 4BBB match and once more I was outvoted 3-1.

My view was that each of the four of us calculates our PH as 90% of our CH. Shots received by each player is then the full difference of each player’s PH and the lowest PH of the four.

The others said we difference in full each player‘s CH and the lowest CH, then for each player we calculate shots received as 90% of that difference.

Who was right - me or the three others - or is the outcome always the same and so it doesn’t matter.

Sorry for asking again. Just getting a bit frustrated and stupid if I am still getting it wrong.
I think you should stop discussing this on the tee, there is a very good mass produced board that can sit next to the slope chart that shows exactly the mandatory requirements for all recognised comps.
 

rosecott

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I admit that in our roll-up games I have so far been a coward and copped out of explaining this to my fellow seniors, but it will have to be tackled before any formal competitions.
I don't know what all the fuss is about. Here is the note I have included on the draws for Club and Seniors Pairs knockouts. I only hope that I have got it right:

"4-ball better ball using the difference in 90% of Course Handicap (at time of playing) from lowest handicap of the 4 players."
 

Swango1980

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I don't know what all the fuss is about. Here is the note I have included on the draws for Club and Seniors Pairs knockouts. I only hope that I have got it right:

"4-ball better ball using the difference in 90% of Course Handicap (at time of playing) from lowest handicap of the 4 players."
That would be incorrect. That implies you take the difference in course handicaps, then do 90% the difference. Or, the wording is confusing at best I think.

That is the old way.

You need to work out all 4 Playing handicaps first, which are 90% the Course handicap. THEN you take the full difference in the Playing handicaps, against the lowest player.
 
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That would be incorrect. That implies you take the difference in course handicaps, then do 90% the difference. Or, the wording is confusing at best I think.

That is the old way.

You need to work out all 4 Playing handicaps first, which are 90% the Course handicap. THEN you take the full difference in the Playing handicaps, against the lowest player.
Indeed. It should be made absolutely clear that the allowance is the FULL difference in PLAYING HANDICAPS from the lowest.
 
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It winds me up to hear my PPs suggest that it makes no difference which way we calculate the 90% in 4BBB matchplay. It matters. Played yesterday and calculated correctly, I only had to give one PP 3 shots instead of the 4 shots he wanted ”using the traditional way”. Whenever a PP comments on a rule ‘we don’t do that’ or similar, my response is , well if you don’t want to play to all the rules, then I’m not going to play to the one that requires you to count all your shots!

(standing by for the post ‘Then you’d be DQ’d)
Maybe I am reading this wrongly, but wouldn't you have 1 playing partner (PP), and 2 opponents?
 
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I admit that in our roll-up games I have so far been a coward and copped out of explaining this to my fellow seniors, but it will have to be tackled before any formal competitions.
The three guys I played with were mid-week seniors and it was my first time playing with two of them - I knew the third guy well - one of my regular rollup - and indeed he was the most insistent...

They were 100% certain that they were right and that I was wrong. I gave up when they started getting irritated by my insistence 🙄
 
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jim8flog

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Knowing that I frequent this place where any golf related query can be answered, a friend of mine asked me to explain the following. It stumped me so....

He hasn't played in a Q comp for years but had a H/C of 5 which he was happy to keep (suited his ego:)). With WHS coming up he decided to put some general play cards in for rounds at his and one other club, 3 in total. He got this. His round of 9th Sept was used for WHS index change but his round of 11th, although 10 over par, saw a reduction to his WHS Index to 2.9. Is it correct please, and can you explain it in terms that a nomad like me can understand.

Sorry about the vertical formatting, it's as he pinged it across to me.

TIA

Played

Marker

Crse Rating

Slope

Adj Gross

PCC

Score Diff

WHS Index

Course Hdcp

11/09/2020

White

69.4

130

79

0

8.3

2.9

3

09/09/2020

White

69.4

130

75

0

4.9 @

5.0

6

04/09/2020

White

72.8

134

83

0

8.6

5.0

6

It would really depend on how many rounds he had on his record from Jan 2018, if the 3 supplementary cards he put were the only ones that met that criteria then it only those that would have been used for his Handicap Index.

With only 3 scores in his HI would be the best score of the 3 minus 2 shots. If he adds a 4th it is still the lowest score minus 1 shot and if he adds a 5th it is the lowest score. If he adds a 6th it is the average of the best 2 minus 1 shot.
 

rosecott

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That would be incorrect. That implies you take the difference in course handicaps, then do 90% the difference. Or, the wording is confusing at best I think.

That is the old way.

You need to work out all 4 Playing handicaps first, which are 90% the Course handicap. THEN you take the full difference in the Playing handicaps, against the lowest player.
I beg to differ.

It says take 90% of Course Handicap i.e. Playing Handicap for that format and use the difference from the lowest handicap. I accept wjemather's suggestion I might have emphasised full difference.
 
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