World Handicap System (WHS)

[rulefan]

Mate saw our handicap & comps sec. today, was advised he now knows all the new handicap indexes and we will be advised of them next week.
(mate is off 17.4 and was told his index sees him stay off 17)

I doubt that your h&c sec was correct. The data used for the trial conversion was taken from the CDH on 5 October. Any scores returned since will not be accounted for and the question of CSS is still being investigated by EG and dotgolf.

 

[Ethan]

my next best outside of the 8, is 6 over dif gross

OK, so if you lose the 73 and replace it with a 77(?) in your best 8, then the HI rises by 0.5 (77-73/8), I reckon, par 71 at Nairn according to card. That is a tight group, though. If you shoot better than 77 next time out, proportionately less increase.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

i worked mine out and it came out as 5 dead, on the plus side my 20 round is my lowest, which was a score of 73 gross, so when that drops off my next best, assuming a don't hit a score my first round of 2021, i'll go up by at least 6 shots.......11 here i come

I'm expecting about 27, although any score below 95 ish next couple of rounds should see a huge drop ??

 

[Billysboots]

 

[Deleted member 23344]

View attachment 32980

I’m with you Billyboots. I’ve lost the will to live. I’m going to accept whatever handicap I get and submit a few cards asap to refine it.

 

[nickjdavis]

Regarding the PCC adjustment....when a course is shared by two clubs (e.g. a main club and an Artisans section) is just one Playing Conditions Calculation made for all scores returned over that course for the day...or would two separate PCC's be calculated, one for each "club" ?

Someone asked me elsewhere and its not something that I've considered but I guess it may be very relevant in some areas...for example I believe that the Montrose course has three different clubs associated with it (or it did when I played it in 2012!!)

I guess the logical thing is "one course, one PCC" but my experience so far with the WHS is one that sometimes defies logical explanation!!!

 

[IanM]

Wales has gone back into full lockdown, allegedly the West Govt were allowing golf, but Wales golf said NO to bUG more time to sort out WHS!

...other versions are available...

 

[Yorkshire Hacker]

Sixty One pages of WHS facts, theories, and disagreements.......and I'm still no wiser, and I don't think I'm alone.
I'm only 20 years into golf, I started quite late in life, but I have NEVER found the present Congu system to be far out. I could explain the system of .1 upwards, and reductions etc etc fairly easily to a new golfer. I couldn't begin to explain the WHS to anyone!! How do we bring new players into this wonderful game when it's as complicated as it seems to be? I don't want my handicap to change at each course I go to. I accept a real challenge at a difficult course in the same way I hope to make hay on an easier course. And Patricks148 reckoning that he will go from 5 up to 11.......even if he is wrong, it still makes it a mockery if a 5 handicapper can't work it out. Anyone fancy playing a 5 handicapper off 11? It's complete balderdash!

 

[jim8flog]

Regarding the PCC adjustment....when a course is shared by two clubs (e.g. a main club and an Artisans section) is just one Playing Conditions Calculation made for all scores returned over that course for the day...or would two separate PCC's be calculated, one for each "club" ?

Someone asked me elsewhere and its not something that I've considered but I guess it may be very relevant in some areas...for example I believe that the Montrose course has three different clubs associated with it (or it did when I played it in 2012!!)

I guess the logical thing is "one course, one PCC" but my experience so far with the WHS is one that sometimes defies logical explanation!!!

If all the clubs use the same computer system it is one PCC generally.

There is the possibility of two PCCs if there is a serious difference in weather conditions during two parts of the day or if there are two competitions with very different ability golfers in each comp e.g. a Scratch comp with all very low single players and and normal club comp open to all members.

 

[jim8flog]

Sixty One pages of WHS facts, theories, and disagreements.......and I'm still no wiser, and I don't think I'm alone.
I'm only 20 years into golf, I started quite late in life, but I have NEVER found the present Congu system to be far out. I could explain the system of .1 upwards, and reductions etc etc fairly easily to a new golfer. I couldn't begin to explain the WHS to anyone!! How do we bring new players into this wonderful game when it's as complicated as it seems to be? I don't want my handicap to change at each course I go to. I accept a real challenge at a difficult course in the same way I hope to make hay on an easier course. And Patricks148 reckoning that he will go from 5 up to 11.......even if he is wrong, it still makes it a mockery if a 5 handicapper can't work it out. Anyone fancy playing a 5 handicapper off 11? It's complete balderdash!

As someone who has played a lot at away courses particularly in competitions/matches having my handicap adjusted according to the difficulty of the course is a big plus for me and the same has been said by many of the club teams players.

Have you ever tried to explain to a new player (and a lot of existing ones as seen on this forum) why 36 point in stableford is not playing to handicap and why the have seen their handicap go up 0.1 when they have shot 36 points?

 

[Swango1980]

As someone who has played a lot at away courses particularly in competitions/matches having my handicap adjusted according to the difficulty of the course is a big plus for me and the same has been said by many of the club teams players.

Have you ever tried to explain to a new player (and a lot of existing ones as seen on this forum) why 36 point in stableford is not playing to handicap and why the have seen their handicap go up 0.1 when they have shot 36 points?

Yes, a lot. But, the same conversation will still be required to some extent, as 36 points will still not be playing to handicap. Sadly, I think a lot of golfers (outside this forum and outside Committees) believe that the WHS changes things so that 36 points will be playing to handicap. This may well be true in countries where they account for the difference between Par and CR in the course handicap calculation, but will not apply in the UK.

 

[Bdill93]

Sixty One pages of WHS facts, theories, and disagreements.......and I'm still no wiser, and I don't think I'm alone.
I'm only 20 years into golf, I started quite late in life, but I have NEVER found the present Congu system to be far out. I could explain the system of .1 upwards, and reductions etc etc fairly easily to a new golfer. I couldn't begin to explain the WHS to anyone!! How do we bring new players into this wonderful game when it's as complicated as it seems to be? I don't want my handicap to change at each course I go to. I accept a real challenge at a difficult course in the same way I hope to make hay on an easier course. And Patricks148 reckoning that he will go from 5 up to 11.......even if he is wrong, it still makes it a mockery if a 5 handicapper can't work it out. Anyone fancy playing a 5 handicapper off 11? It's complete balderdash!

I'm a new golfer, dont think its transition has been thought out the best possible way, but I like the idea of more shots at harder courses personally. My old mans a steady 12 at our home course, he needs 16/18 on some of the other local courses to even be near competing in stableford (between friends not comps). Kind of the only real major benefit of the new system in my opinion though!! Buffer zones are easy to understand, as is the SSS and CSS. But then my two mates who are also new have no clue about it all, im just a geek who likes to know these things! Everyone will grow to understand WHS.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm a new golfer, dont think its transition has been thought out the best possible way, but I like the idea of more shots at harder courses personally. My old mans a steady 12 at our home course, he needs 16/18 on some of the other local courses to even be near competing in stableford (between friends not comps). Kind of the only real major benefit of the new system in my opinion though!! Buffer zones are easy to understand, as is the SSS and CSS. But then my two mates who are also new have no clue about it all, im just a geek who likes to know these things! Everyone will grow to understand WHS.

Your old man who is a steady 12 handicapper will, in all probabilty, not play off 12 at one course and even as high as 16 at another. For that to be true, he'd have to be playing at one of the easiest courses in the UK, with a slope of about 113. If he then went to play one of the hardest courses in the UK, with a slope of about 150, his 12 handicap could increase to 16 (certainly not 18). However, in all likelihood, with a handicap of around 12, he shouldn't see his course handicap fluctuate much more than 1 or 2 shots either way.

 

[Bdill93]

Your old man who is a steady 12 handicapper will, in all probabilty, not play off 12 at one course and even as high as 16 at another. For that to be true, he'd have to be playing at one of the easiest courses in the UK, with a slope of about 113. If he then went to play one of the hardest courses in the UK, with a slope of about 150, his 12 handicap could increase to 16 (certainly not 18). However, in all likelihood, with a handicap of around 12, he shouldn't see his course handicap fluctuate much more than 1 or 2 shots either way.

I dont expect that either, but hes only got 4 cards in so far in his golfing career, so his 12 may increase to 13/14 when its best 8/20. If he submitted his last few rounds theyd be all over the shop but hes got a back issue at present!

 

[patricks148]

As someone who has played a lot at away courses particularly in competitions/matches having my handicap adjusted according to the difficulty of the course is a big plus for me and the same has been said by many of the club teams players.

Have you ever tried to explain to a new player (and a lot of existing ones as seen on this forum) why 36 point in stableford is not playing to handicap and why the have seen their handicap go up 0.1 when they have shot 36 points?

we already have this though in comps, its called the CSS and Visitor CSS. i play plenty of opens and have never felt hard done by or i should get extra shots because the CSS takes care of that. also if im visiting another course for a bounce game i go by the SSS to see if i play to handicap... simples. as for club matches the same, its a challenge to beat someone else on their home course.

on the plus side i'm looking forward to playing off 11 by the 2nd week of April, it will be a shock to my oppo at Dornoch next match

 

[94tegsi]

In regards to telling a non golfer, as always it’s all in how you explain it...

It’s based on the average score of your 8 best scores in your last 20 rounds. With an adjustment based on the relative difficulty of the course you played compared to others.

I don’t think that is too difficult to understand. It’s us experienced golfers that complicate the general principle of it.

 

[azazel]

In regards to telling a non golfer, as always it’s all in how you explain it...

It’s based on the average score of your 8 best scores in your last 20 rounds. With an adjustment based on the relative difficulty of the course you played compared to others.

I don’t think that is too difficult to understand. It’s us experienced golfers that complicate the general principle of it.

Which is fair enough, until you then try to explain to them why they should only get 95% of their course handicap if they're playing in a singles strokeplay competition.

 

[Yorkshire Hacker]

In regards to telling a non golfer, as always it’s all in how you explain it...

It’s based on the average score of your 8 best scores in your last 20 rounds. With an adjustment based on the relative difficulty of the course you played compared to others.

I don’t think that is too difficult to understand. It’s us experienced golfers that complicate the general principle of it.

If it is THAT easy, how come there's 62 pages of discussion on the subject? IMHO it is not that easy.

 

[IanM]

If it is THAT easy, how come there's 62 pages of discussion on the subject? IMHO it is not that easy.

The high level explanation of it is easy... and the post gives a good one.... BUT - we have 62 pages of detail that will probably come out in the wash eventually!! (Eg I have a spreadsheet and I worked out my HI as 12.765656, the email arrived and I am 13.1 why is this??? Exactly how hard is a "hard-cap?" Would it hurt id someone hit me with it? Our slope is only 136, surely it should be 137!! )

 

[BubbaP]

Probably already been posted, but if not...

Looks like R&A have put their own wrapper on the course rating DB
https://www.randa.org/chc-lookup

Doesn't default to USA so that's an improvement ?

Other stuff also on herehttps://www.randa.org/en/worldhandicapsystem