World Handicap System (WHS)

[IanMcC]

Quick question I couldnt answer with 100% accuracy to an enquiring member.
In the winter we will be playing 11 and 15 hole non qualifying comps at the club, using pick, clean and place, and rake and place in bunkers.
Will a player use his full Course Handicap, or 95% of this to obtain a Playing Handicap, considering it is a non qualifier and not a full round?

 

[jim8flog]

Quick question I couldnt answer with 100% accuracy to an enquiring member.
In the winter we will be playing 11 and 15 hole non qualifying comps at the club, using pick, clean and place, and rake and place in bunkers.
Will a player use his full Course Handicap, or 95% of this to obtain a Playing Handicap, considering it is a non qualifier and not a full round?

It will be up to the club to decide as they are non qualifiers they will not be used for handicap purposes. The 95% mandatory is not used for adjusting handicaps anyway, the full course handicap is used.

 

[IanMcC]

I understand all that. The Playing Handicap is a little bit like the Competition Handicap at the moment, which comes into play if we have Ladies in the comp, which we do on Wednesdays and Fridays. On a Wednesday the men receive 2 extra Stableford shots to create a Competition Handicap, as the SSS is 2 more than par, but the Ladies is the same as par. Would equity be affected if we only used the unadjusted Course Handicap? Will the system recognise the 2 tee comp and automatically make the adjustments as it does now, and if so, will it also automatically create the 95% playing handicap to adjust?

 

[IanMcC]

I have read section 6.2b ii of the Rules of Handicapping manual, but frankly I dont fully understand it, and its only talking about 9 or 18 hole comps anyway.

(ii) Stableford formats
l For an 18-hole round: The number of points required for all players to
‘play to handicap’ must be calculated from each applicable set of tees.
o Those players requiring the highest number of points to ‘play to
handicap’ receive no additional strokes to the standard calculation of
their Playing Handicap.
o All players playing from a set of tees requiring a lower number of
points to ‘play to handicap’ will receive additional strokes to their
Playing Handicap equal to the difference between the number of
points they require to ‘play to handicap’ and the highest number of
points required by other players.
Rule 6
These additional strokes are added to the player’s Playing Handicap as
follows:
Playing
Handicap
=
(Course Handicap x
handicap allowance)
+
difference in number of points
required to 'play to handicap'
(highest to lowest)
l For a 9-hole round: As a player’s total number of Stableford points for
the round is compared directly against that of every other player, no
additional strokes are applied to the standard calculation of the Playing
Handicap when the par is different between tees.

 

[rulefan]

The Playing Handicap is a little bit like the Competition Handicap at the moment, which comes into play if we have Ladies in the comp, which we do on Wednesdays and Fridays.

Not really. It is exactly the same as the adjustment made when playing 4BBB or 4somes now (see CONGU Appendix F)

On a Wednesday the men receive 2 extra Stableford shots to create a Competition Handicap, as the SSS is 2 more than par, but the Ladies is the same as par. Would equity be affected if we only used the unadjusted Course Handicap? Will the system recognise the 2 tee comp and automatically make the adjustments as it does now, and if so, will it also automatically create the 95% playing handicap to adjust?

The system will make the appropriate adjustments re different tees and different genders. Remember any player's Competition Handicap is based on their individual Index and the gender specific Course Rating and Slope of the tees being used by the individual player.

The WHS Allowance is applied to the individual player's resultant Competition Handicap

 

[rulefan]

I have read section 6.2b ii of the Rules of Handicapping manual, but frankly I dont fully understand it, and its only talking about 9 or 18 hole comps anyway.

I think you may have an old version of the Rules

Mine says

 

[IanMcC]

So, to answer the member's question, they only need to worry about Course Handicap. Any further adjustments will be handled by ClubV1, similarly, but not exactly like, Competition Handicaps are created now. Is this correct?

Additionally, that text above is exactly what I posted. I only posted the part about Stableford comps though.

 

[rulefan]

So, to answer the member's question, they only need to worry about Course Handicap. Any further adjustments will be handled by ClubV1, similarly, but not exactly like, Competition Handicaps are created now. Is this correct?

That is what I am told but it may depend on whether the player is using the ISV software to make his entry or simply returning a card on completion. The boards or notices showing the conversion from HI to CH will not show Allowances.

 

[IanMcC]

That is what I am told but it may depend on whether the player is using the ISV software to make his entry or simply returning a card on completion. The boards or notices showing the conversion from HI to CH will not show Allowances.

Thanks for this.
Do you think a box for Playing Handicap should be on the new Scorecards or not? I have designed our new cards with such a box, but if the system generates all of the adjustments from CH to PH, then is it relevant at all, or will it just confuse people further?

 

[Swango1980]

Thanks for this.
Do you think a box for Playing Handicap should be on the new Scorecards or not? I have designed our new cards with such a box, but if the system generates all of the adjustments from CH to PH, then is it relevant at all, or will it just confuse people further?

We've included them in our design, and I read somewhere in the guidance that it is recommended there are boxes for Index, Course and Playing handicaps for clarity.

 

[IanMcC]

We've included them in our design, and I read somewhere in the guidance that it is recommended there are boxes for Index, Course and Playing handicaps for clarity.

Could you point me towards that guidance, please, if you remember where it is?

 

[IanMcC]

My only concern with adding the Playing Handicap box is that, yes, people can know that it is 95% for a singles comp, but if it is a 2 tee comp with Ladies and Gents playing, there will probably be a further adjustment to obtain true Playing Handicaps.

 

[Swango1980]

Could you point me towards that guidance, please, if you remember where it is?

Yes. There was a document: "Guidance on the WHS Rules of handicapping as Applied within GB&I", which provides additional information relevant to us.

On Pg10, G2.1b/1 Handicap on Scorecard, it states:

"Whilst not mandatory, CONGU recommend that space for the Handicap Index and Playing Handicap is also on the scorecard"

 

[Swango1980]

My only concern with adding the Playing Handicap box is that, yes, people can know that it is 95% for a singles comp, but if it is a 2 tee comp with Ladies and Gents playing, there will probably be a further adjustment to obtain true Playing Handicaps.

However, if there was any further adjustment, would you not just apply that anyway, and put it in the Playing handicap? Playing Handicap is not necessarily always 95% of Course Handicap

 

[rulefan]

Additionally, that text above is exactly what I posted. I only posted the part about Stableford comps though.

Sorry. I was trying to compare the format in your post with the format in the manual and my pdf and they didn't seem to match

 

[IanMcC]

Yes, that is my point. A player may fill in the box with 95% of his CH, thinking he is doing me a favour, but once ClubV1 gets a hold of his score the Playing Handicap will be wrong if Ladies are in the field. The next paragraph of the text you pointed out hints at this:

For multi-tee or mixed-tee competitions the Handicap Allowance may include additional strokes for players who play from the tees with the higher Course Ratings. Players should be aware that under these circumstances any additional strokes they receive could affect when they pick up on a hole in certain formats, for example Stableford or Par/Bogey.

So, if it is probably going to be incorrect, and the software will correct any mistakes, to my mind it is best not there. There is no space on the card at the moment for Competition Handicap, for example. I'm pretty confused at the moment.

 

[IanMcC]

It will be up to the club to decide as they are non qualifiers they will not be used for handicap purposes. The 95% mandatory is not used for adjusting handicaps anyway, the full course handicap is used.

Just received this reply back from Wales Golf. Its is consistent with what you say, but doesnt really help me decide if Playing Handicap or Course Handicap should be used in Winter 15 hole comps, and hints at maybe the software not doing the correct conversions also:

The handicapping system won’t cater for the issues below. The handicapping system is designed around 9 and 18 hole competition golf, anything beyond (non-qualifying competition) is completely down to the club discretion to run along with any associated rules or shot allowances. I can’t really offer any further guidance that because there is none out there.

The only advise I can potentially give is that applying the playing handicap might help create consistency between qualifying competitions and your non-qualifying comps.

Kind regards

I hope the software comes out in time to have an experiment with it before our Winter comps start!!

 

[Swango1980]

Yes, that is my point. A player may fill in the box with 95% of his CH, thinking he is doing me a favour, but once ClubV1 gets a hold of his score the Playing Handicap will be wrong if Ladies are in the field. The next paragraph of the text you pointed out hints at this:

For multi-tee or mixed-tee competitions the Handicap Allowance may include additional strokes for players who play from the tees with the higher Course Ratings. Players should be aware that under these circumstances any additional strokes they receive could affect when they pick up on a hole in certain formats, for example Stableford or Par/Bogey.

So, if it is probably going to be incorrect, and the software will correct any mistakes, to my mind it is best not there. There is no space on the card at the moment for Competition Handicap, for example. I'm pretty confused at the moment.

The playing handicap will be important in the sense it will help the player know what they are getting in the actual competition (I guess Competition Handicap is same as Playing Handicap?). It will be up to them to know how to work that out, or be guided by someone else (or the software) if overly complicated.

In terms of handicapping, however, players need to be aware that if they can no longer score on a hole based on their Playing Handicap, they may still be able to "score" based on their Course Handicap. So, they shouldn't necessarily just pick their ball up, as this could effect their handicap calculation (i.e. Player has Course Handicap of 18 and Playing Handicap of 17, if they pick up after they miss their bogey putt for a point on SI 18, their score for handicap would be a triple bogey, rather than a double bogey had they putted out.

 

[rulefan]

The playing handicap will be important in the sense it will help the player know what they are getting in the actual competition (I guess Competition Handicap is same as Playing Handicap?). It will be up to them to know how to work that out, or be guided by someone else (or the software) if overly complicated.

In terms of handicapping, however, players need to be aware that if they can no longer score on a hole based on their Playing Handicap, they may still be able to "score" based on their Course Handicap. So, they shouldn't necessarily just pick their ball up, as this could effect their handicap calculation (i.e. Player has Course Handicap of 18 and Playing Handicap of 17, if they pick up after they miss their bogey putt for a point on SI 18, their score for handicap would be a triple bogey, rather than a double bogey had they putted out.

The Clause you mentioned above makes a specific point on this.

G2.1b/1
For multi-tee or mixed-tee competitions the Handicap Allowance may include additional strokes for players who play from the tees with the higher Course Ratings. Players should be aware that under these circumstances any additional strokes they receive could affect when they pick up on a hole in certain formats, for example Stableford or Par/Bogey.

 

[doublebogey7]

Just received this reply back from Wales Golf. Its is consistent with what you say, but doesnt really help me decide if Playing Handicap or Course Handicap should be used in Winter 15 hole comps, and hints at maybe the software not doing the correct conversions also:

The handicapping system won’t cater for the issues below. The handicapping system is designed around 9 and 18 hole competition golf, anything beyond (non-qualifying competition) is completely down to the club discretion to run along with any associated rules or shot allowances. I can’t really offer any further guidance that because there is none out there.

The only advise I can potentially give is that applying the playing handicap might help create consistency between qualifying competitions and your non-qualifying comps.

Kind regards

I hope the software comes out in time to have an experiment with it before our Winter comps start!!

The current handicapping software is also not designed around 15 hole competitions, so are you using it at the moment, if so no real change in how you use it going forward. I would suggest you ought to use the playing handicap calculation in such competitions as this is how the WHS is designed to provide equity.