World Handicap System (WHS)

[jim8flog]

But, it leads me on to WHS. Potentially club scorecards may have Index, Course, Playing Handicap boxes to fill in? If so, which box needs to be correct?

We just had new cards printed, I tried pointing out to the club manager that was my opinion about what was needed before they were printed but he went ahead with just two boxes for handicap so we may yet need newer cards in November.


As already said I asked the specific question at our workshop and the answer given back was the player has to have their handicap index on the card and it is only the thing they are responsible for.

As rulefan says this is an R&A rule not an England (or other) Golf rule so hopefully they will clarify nearer the time.

 

[Swango1980]

We just had new cards printed, I tried pointing out to the club manager that was my opinion about what was needed before they were printed but he went ahead with just two boxes for handicap so we may yet need newer cards in November.


As already said I asked the specific question at our workshop and the answer given back was the player has to have their handicap index on the card and it is only the thing they are responsible for.

As rulefan says this is an R&A rule not an England (or other) Golf rule so hopefully they will clarify nearer the time.

Yes. I guess I am still confused though, because the exact same question was asked by a guy at our workshop, at England Golf and presented by England Golf.

The chap that asked the question claimed to be a golf referee, and he said he assumed that "Playing Handicap" must be entered, as the Rules suggest it is the handicap that indicates the amount of shots you get (which would not be the Index)

The EG representative said it should be the "Course Handicap" that should be entered, because they believed the rules state that the handicap on the card should represent the number related to the course you are playing.

The referee insisted the rules do not say this, and it should be Playing Handicap. The England Golf presenter was hesitant from this point, and no resolution was ever finalised.

I did check the rules at the time, and as rulefan also showed earlier, there is no suggestion that it should be Course Handicap, so my feeling is that it needs to be the Playing Handicap that is correct on the card.

However, at the meeting, at no point did the referee or England Golf believe that it was the Index that needed to be correct on the card.

 

[jim8flog]

I personally go with Handicap Index on the simple basis is that it is the only thing that is not calculated by the player and therefore there is no room for player error, it has to be right and it is the basis for any further calculation.

 

[Swango1980]

I personally go with Handicap Index on the simple basis is that it is the only thing that is not calculated by the player and therefore there is no room for player error, it has to be right and it is the basis for any further calculation.

It certainly is a sensible approach. I wonder if this will be the common approach. I guess scorecards really need updated though (obviously they will anyway as SSS is no longer relevant, Slope will be) for the handicap boxes. If Handicap and Strokes Received are simply kept, I can see golfers getting confused anyway as to what is required (basically having the conversation we are having now).

 

[rulefan]

The only figure that has any bearing on the number of stroke received is the Playing Handicap.
The EG presenter was almost certainly not a referee.
The handicap being on the card is a ROG requirement. Handicap is only mentioned in the WHS because it is a ROG. After the round the WHS is only interested in the Handicap Index which is in the system already.

 

[rulefan]

I assume the highlighted bit means "Playing Handicap", which is what I interpreted it as.

What other version of 'Handicap' affects the number of strokes received?
But my quote was from the RoG which have no concept of various names of handicaps

 

[rulefan]

But I don't think the rules are written to ensure you use what is closest to what we do now?

Currently, we basically only have one number related to our handicap. So, that is easy. However, cards have the boxes Handicap and Strokes Received (ours does anyway).

So, currently, if I was to play in a competition that was 75% handicap, what is the most important box to be correct? The Handicap one, or the Strokes Received one? If I put in a handicap of 9 (my handicap is 9), would I be OK if I didn't put 7 in the strokes received? Or, if I accidentally put 9 in the strokes received but left Handicap blank, would I be OK because at least my correct handicap of 9 appeared?

I genuinely don't know the above, I've just never really thought about it.

But, it leads me on to WHS. Potentially club scorecards may have Index, Course, Playing Handicap boxes to fill in? If so, which box needs to be correct?

The player is responsible for making sure that his or her handicap is shown on the scorecard
The clue is in the red word.

 

[rulefan]

I personally go with Handicap Index on the simple basis is that it is the only thing that is not calculated by the player and therefore there is no room for player error, it has to be right and it is the basis for any further calculation.

The WHS is not supposed to be the same as the CONGU UHS.
But the nearest thing to the WHS Handicap Index is the UHS Exact Handicap

 

[Swango1980]

The player is responsible for making sure that his or her handicap is shown on the scorecard
The clue is in the red word.

Rulefan, I'm pretty sure I was agreeing with you in the first place. In other words, the Rules of Golf require the Playing Handicap.

However, the chat between myself and jim indicates where the confusion may lie to normal golfers when putting a handicap on their competition scorecard.

You say the clue is in the red word, I.e. handicap. Of course, that clue does not help us on this discussion, as there is handicap index, course handicap and playing handicap. If that was the only clue, it could apply to any of those terms.

But, given the playing handicap is what strokes a player receives, this is what I would assume needs to be correct?

 

[rulefan]

But, given the playing handicap is what strokes a player receives, this is what I would assume needs to be correct?

Exactly.

How else can the words in the Rule of Golf be satisfied?

 

[rulefan]

3. In determining the Course Handicap, why is the ‘Course Rating minus Par’ adjustment not incorporated, as it is in the rest of the world?
I e-mailed England Golf directly on this. There were 3 issues with including it: On courses where multiple tees keep the same par, regardless of length, CR-P can be quite a large negative number. This difference is sometimes perceived as due to Slope, when it is not. Also, where a player loses allowance strokes because Par is a lot higher than CR, they think they have reached NDB a lot sooner than they have and pick up, whereas they should have played out to their course handicap. Also, due to rounding, stroked received can be distorted if CR-P is factored in. For example, 2 scratch golfers, 0.2 and 0.3 handicaps could play against each other, with 1 having to give the other a shot in matchplay.
Pretty well the same answer I received:
It originally came about because the EGA liked to come in with 36 points if they played Stableford to handicap. Which meant adjusting the strokes received BEFORE going out to play, rather then adjusting the gross differential AFTER the score is returned as everyone else did. (By adjustment I mean Course Rating minus Par CR-P).
There are 3 issues with it:
1. For courses where multiple tees keep the same par, regardless of length, the CR-P can be quite a large negative number. This, sometimes large, difference is being perceived as due to Slope, when it is not.
2. Where a player then loses allowance strokes because Par is a lot higher than Rating (especially for multiple tee scenarios) they think they've reached NDB a lot sooner than they have, and they pick up. Whereas they should have played out to their CH and so could lose themselves some shots.
3. Due to rounding, the strokes received can be distorted when the allowance factors in CR-P. Examples show 2 'scratch' golfers, say 0.2 and 0.3, and one has to give the other a shot in matchplay. Or players in a mixed tee event.
So CONGU refused to adopt it and it became a menu option instead.
There are some very knowledgeable golf experts (Shultz, I think?) who comment in the US golfing press, and they believe the USGA should NOT adopt it, so countries may change their mind in future years, or maybe CONGU will accept it despite the failings. We'll see how the dust settles (by year 4 or 5, I would guess).
The daft thing is that now, with a 95% stroke allowance agreed for singles Stableford, the EGA have NOT achieved the situation of 36 points meaning playing to handicap!!

5. Will electronic card readers be introduced in the UK, as they are in Australia and New Zealand?
Almost certainly. Sooner rather than later. If clubs are prepared to pay

6. Will the Union be supplying Handicap Index/Course Handicap/Playing Handicap conversion charts for the pro shop and first tee? If so, will they show all the conversion factors down to Playing Handicap for different competitions, or simply be converting Handicap Index to Course Handicap?
Players registering a competition or supplementary score entry will have all the information displayed on the input terminal or app. The facility to print cards or stick on labels is already available from the main software providers

9. When the app is up and running, will we be able to check everyone’s Playing Handicap, or only our own?
As I understand it, yes.[/quote]

 

[rosecott]

But, given the playing handicap is what strokes a player receives, this is what I would assume needs to be correct?

Not quite. Surely the Competition Handicap determines the strokes received and the committee is responsible for applying that.

 

[Swango1980]

Not quite. Surely the Competition Handicap determines the strokes received and the committee is responsible for applying that.

The rules make it the players responsibility to show the correct handicap on the card

 

[rulefan]

Not quite. Surely the Competition Handicap determines the strokes received and the committee is responsible for applying that.

If the PH is the CH reduced to 95% (say), then strokes received relates to the PH.

 

[jim8flog]

I had a further thought on this and come up with another reason why it needs to be handicap index and not course handicap on the card

Every other Monday we run a seniors competition with over 100 competitors. At the present moment one of the seniors committee prints out all the cards (labels) for all the entrants with their handicap on it. If the requirement is for course handicap is that person now going to be responsible for calculating it for each competitor, entering it in to the labelling system before printing out the card.

The same applies to our major competitions such as Opens.

 

[Swango1980]

I had a further thought on this and come up with another reason why it needs to be handicap index and not course handicap on the card

Every other Monday we run a seniors competition with over 100 competitors. At the present moment one of the seniors committee prints out all the cards (labels) for all the entrants with their handicap on it. If the requirement is for course handicap is that person now going to be responsible for calculating it for each competitor, entering it in to the labelling system before printing out the card.

The same applies to our major competitions such as Opens.

Unfortunately, it may be that you can no longer print cards in the same way. Our competition secretary does the same thing on our cards, but has acknowledged it won't really be possible from WHS, or at least may not be. So, from this year he is going to stop doing this, so members get used to having to fill this out for themselves.

At the end of the day, it is the Players responsibility under the rules, not the Committee's.

The problem with only requiring the Index on the card is that, this will not be used at all for scoring purposes. So, theoretically, if a player just entered the Index and didn't even bother with Playing Handicap, then they wouldn't actually be able to work out their final score, whether it be Stableford or Medal. Yes, the computer should ensure it is done correctly, but they'd have no way of double checking that the scores were entered correctly on the computer, if they do not know their score in the first place. So, it makes sense that the Playing Handicap should be correct on card (albeit, to get there the player will need to know their Index and course handicap).

If cards had Index / Course / Playing handicap boxes, hopefully that would make it clear to golfers the steps that are required, which number goes in which box, and even highlight the box in some way (or make it bigger) that is the one that is important in relation to complying with the Rules.

 

[duncan mackie]

Unfortunately, it may be that you can no longer print cards in the same way. Our competition secretary does the same thing on our cards, but has acknowledged it won't really be possible from WHS, or at least may not be. So, from this year he is going to stop doing this, so members get used to having to fill this out for themselves.

At the end of the day, it is the Players responsibility under the rules, not the Committee's.

The problem with only requiring the Index on the card is that, this will not be used at all for scoring purposes. So, theoretically, if a player just entered the Index and didn't even bother with Playing Handicap, then they wouldn't actually be able to work out their final score, whether it be Stableford or Medal. Yes, the computer should ensure it is done correctly, but they'd have no way of double checking that the scores were entered correctly on the computer, if they do not know their score in the first place. So, it makes sense that the Playing Handicap should be correct on card (albeit, to get there the player will need to know their Index and course handicap).

If cards had Index / Course / Playing handicap boxes, hopefully that would make it clear to golfers the steps that are required, which number goes in which box, and even highlight the box in some way (or make it bigger) that is the one that is important in relation to complying with the Rules.

I see this as (another - the calculation routine for a playing handicap being the last) example of the full impact of daily handicap changes and the late decision to integrate allowances into playing handicaps, not having fully completed into the guidance; it will do so.

My 2p is that it is established that the player is responsible for his handicap, and the committee is responsible for the calculation of allowances/strokes etc in stroke play competitions (within the rules). This matches with the practical aspects to conclude that the player should be responsible for the handicap index figure - which is also the constant that can be referenced by committees, players and systems. Time will tell as to whether my interpretation is correct.

Regarding pre printed cards etc - nothing has changed at all. Currently the committee may pre-print, and most that do do so the previous day from the records available to them at the time. It is, and will be, the players responsibility to ensure that this is correct when they return their card. Currently if they return their card to a computer terminal, and many systems, the terminal will ask whether the information it holds at that point is correct, and the player has the option to amend for data known to him and not the system. In the future the same process will involve the terminal knowing exactly what the handicap should be at the point the card is returned (if returned in a timely manner!) but should still ask the player the question, at which point he can also amend the card if necessary (as now).

Whether we see changes to the rules themselves in this regard going forwards, or not, there will at least be guidance before implementation!

Q ? what happens in the US, or other countries that have adopted the WHS already, in this regard today? Do they enter HI plus tees played from or CH, or PH?

 

[rulefan]

I had a further thought on this and come up with another reason why it needs to be handicap index and not course handicap on the card

Every other Monday we run a seniors competition with over 100 competitors. At the present moment one of the seniors committee prints out all the cards (labels) for all the entrants with their handicap on it. If the requirement is for course handicap is that person now going to be responsible for calculating it for each competitor, entering it in to the labelling system before printing out the card.

The same applies to our major competitions such as Opens.

Please tell me how the number of strokes received can be determined by looking at a card/label with only the Handicap Index on it.
As have said before, when a card/label is printed for a competition entrant it will show the Playing Handicap (ie the only figure that shows how many strokes the player gets in that competition). Depending on what options the software provider has given, it may well be that the Index and/or the Course Handicap will be printed also.
Players will never have to calculate anything.

 

[doublebogey7]

I see this as (another - the calculation routine for a playing handicap being the last) example of the full impact of daily handicap changes and the late decision to integrate allowances into playing handicaps, not having fully completed into the guidance; it will do so.

My 2p is that it is established that the player is responsible for his handicap, and the committee is responsible for the calculation of allowances/strokes etc in stroke play competitions (within the rules). This matches with the practical aspects to conclude that the player should be responsible for the handicap index figure - which is also the constant that can be referenced by committees, players and systems. Time will tell as to whether my interpretation is correct.

Q ? what happens in the US, or other countries that have adopted the WHS already, in this regard today? Do they enter HI plus tees played from or CH, or PH?

Indeed, but further what has been the requirement been in Countries that have for years now been using the slope system for handicapping.
Also the argument that it needs to be playing handicap doesn't stand as there is no requirement for Net Scores to be recorded on cards, so players do not need to know either there playing or competition handicaps. No calculation is ever needed, just need to record handicap and gross score on each hole.

Its clearly handicap index for me.

 

[rulefan]

Q ? what happens in the US, or other countries that have adopted the WHS already, in this regard today? Do they enter HI plus tees played from or CH, or PH?

The US simply enter the total gross or hole by hole gross.