World Handicap System (WHS)

[rulefan]

Additional strokes are added to the playing handicap of the player playing from the higher rated tees.

For CONGU
Playing Handicap = (Course Handicap x Handicap Allowance) + difference in Course Ratings

For US
Playing Handicap = (Course Handicap x Handicap Allowance) + difference in Pars
If you are not in CONGU, don't ask

 

[nickjdavis]

The same tees will have different ratings for men and women, and that difference will still be taken into account in mixed competition - course handicap is, effectively, a seperate matter.

I wasn't talking about men and ladies playing from the same set of tees.

By the way...our white and yellow tees were only rated for men and our red tees were only rated for ladies.

 

[nickjdavis]

Additional strokes are added to the playing handicap of the player playing from the higher rated tees.

For CONGU
Playing Handicap = (Course Handicap x Handicap Allowance) + difference in Course Ratings*

That makes perfect sense.

Why on Earth doesnt it state that in the presentation that we were given?

 

[Swango1980]

Good question. Both ladies and men can enter our club competitions (ladies off red tees, men off whites). At the moment, ladies get 2 shot added to their handicap in medal, 1 shot added in Stableford (might be the other way around, but I know the system does it differently depending on the format). The red tee par is 1 higher than the white tee par, and the red SSS is 2 higher

 

[duncan mackie]

I wasn't talking about men and ladies playing from the same set of tees.

By the way...our white and yellow tees were only rated for men and our red tees were only rated for ladies.

Neither was I, the principle applies regardless, as set out in more practical detail by rulefan

 

[rulefan]

Why on Earth doesnt it state that in the presentation that we were given?

1) Because there wasn't time to include all the details in the presentations
2) There are a number of 'menu items' from which the national authorities may pick and choose. The CONGU use of par in this and other areas hadn't then been finalised.

But technically, this isn't really a handicapping issue, it is about competition results.

 

[nickjdavis]

But technically, this isn't really a handicapping issue, it is about competition results.

I take your point but...what you may see in black and white, my membership will see in varying shades of grey and it is to them that I answer!

 

[rulefan]

I take your point but...what you may see in black and white, my membership will see in varying shades of grey and it is to them that I answer!

You'll be getting all the information you need in good time to present to your members. I don't know about the seminar you attended but I was told clearly prior to the presentations that I did, to make sure that attendees weren't expecting to go back to their clubs and start trying to educate their members. The material was not designed for that.
Clubs will be getting packs designed specifically for that purpose later in the year.
IMO, if you start telling members now about the details they will surely forget it all by November. The only thing members need to know is to put in as many cards as possible this season.

 

[nickjdavis]

You'll be getting all the information you need in good time to present to your members. I don't know about the seminar you attended but I was told clearly prior to the presentations that I did, to make sure that attendees weren't expecting to go back to their clubs and start trying to educate their members. The material was not designed for that.
Clubs will be getting packs designed specifically for that purpose later in the year.
IMO, if you start telling members now about the details they will surely forget it all by November. The only thing members need to know is to put in as many cards as possible this season.

1) We were not told anything about using (or not) the material to educate members, however we quickly realised for ourselves that the material presented had enough flaws that there was no way we would wish to try to educate anyone using it
2) Good to know there will be proper educational material forthcoming....I find out far more from you than I do from my own county secretary or handicap representative.
3) We have no intention of formally presenting anything to our members until September at the earliest for exactly that reason. However, my handicap secretary and I are doing all we can to educate ourselves, as we know we will have to start quashing inaccuracies and fallacies about the system as our members start learning about it for themselves. There will be enough wrong information passed around between members to keep us busy in that regard!!!!

 

[rulefan]

However, my handicap secretary and I are doing all we can to educate ourselves, as we know we will have to start quashing inaccuracies and fallacies about the system as our members start learning about it for themselves. There will be enough wrong information passed around between members to keep us busy in that regard!!!!

Ask here and I'll try and answer what I can but there still one or two details to be sorted and no doubt some things I haven't been told or managed to find out.

 

[IanMcC]

Ask here and I'll try and answer what I can but there still one or two details to be sorted and no doubt some things I haven't been told or managed to find out.

My club is in the Welsh Golf Union, and our seminars are coming up at the end of this month. Unfortunately I will be on holiday then (unless Coronavirus buggers that up!). One of my committee is attending, but it would be great if I could get some definitive answers here first, before I send him out with my awkward questions. So, thanks in advance for any answers, and here goes:

1. What is the maximum look back period to achieve 20 rounds? I have seen 2 years and 3 years printed.

2. In light of removing the Competition Status, does the Union recommend a minimum number of qualifying competitions played in the previous calendar year before an individual can enter board comps?

3. In determining the Course Handicap, why is the ‘Course Rating minus Par’ adjustment not incorporated, as it is in the rest of the world?

4. If a player in a qualifying singles strokeplay comp is going to score more than net double bogey, can he pick up the ball and register a net double bogey on his card, or does he have to play the hole to completion?

5. Will electronic card readers be introduced in the UK, as they are in Australia and New Zealand?

6. Will the Union be supplying Handicap Index/Course Handicap/Playing Handicap conversion charts for the pro shop and first tee? If so, will they show all the conversion factors down to Playing Handicap for different competitions, or simply be converting Handicap Index to Course Handicap?

7. If someone innocently enters the wrong Playing Handicap on their card, for whatever reason, are they disqualified?

8. In the summer we run 11 hole comps from our yellow tees. Should these be made qualifying comps, and if so, does a player receive their full playing handicap as if it were an 18 hole comp?

9. When the app is up and running, will we be able to check everyone’s Playing Handicap, or only our own?

 

[Swango1980]

In answer to your questions

1. What is the maximum look back period to achieve 20 rounds? I have seen 2 years and 3 years printed.
January 2018 is as far back as they go

2. In light of removing the Competition Status, does the Union recommend a minimum number of qualifying competitions played in the previous calendar year before an individual can enter board comps?
Nope, that will be left to competition organisers to do as they see fit

3. In determining the Course Handicap, why is the ‘Course Rating minus Par’ adjustment not incorporated, as it is in the rest of the world?
I e-mailed England Golf directly on this. There were 3 issues with including it: On courses where multiple tees keep the same par, regardless of length, CR-P can be quite a large negative number. This difference is sometimes perceived as due to Slope, when it is not. Also, where a player loses allowance strokes because Par is a lot higher than CR, they think they have reached NDB a lot sooner than they have and pick up, whereas they should have played out to their course handicap. Also, due to rounding, stroked received can be distorted if CR-P is factored in. For example, 2 scratch golfers, 0.2 and 0.3 handicaps could play against each other, with 1 having to give the other a shot in matchplay.
4. If a player in a qualifying singles strokeplay comp is going to score more than net double bogey, can he pick up the ball and register a net double bogey on his card, or does he have to play the hole to completion?
A player can pick up. They can do that now anyway. In both cases the card counts for handicap, but they get a DQ from the comp

5. Will electronic card readers be introduced in the UK, as they are in Australia and New Zealand?
Not sure on this

6. Will the Union be supplying Handicap Index/Course Handicap/Playing Handicap conversion charts for the pro shop and first tee? If so, will they show all the conversion factors down to Playing Handicap for different competitions, or simply be converting Handicap Index to Course Handicap?
Just course handicap. Too many formats to include Playing Handicap. Clubs can buy the large boards for £150 (although other suppliers may exist)

7. If someone innocently enters the wrong Playing Handicap on their card, for whatever reason, are they disqualified?
I believe so, the rules of golf state a player needs to have the correct handicap on their card. To be honest, someone at the seminar asked this question, and even England Golf (well, the presenters there) were confused as to whether the Course or handicap should be written down, when put on the spot. The definition of scorecard in the Rules states the players handicap must be entered (but not whether this is index, course or playing). So, I'm not sure if there is anything else in the rules that is more specific (only just done a quick scan)

8. In the summer we run 11 hole comps from our yellow tees. Should these be made qualifying comps, and if so, does a player receive their full playing handicap as if it were an 18 hole comp?
Not sure this summer (before WHS). With WHS, a minimum of 9 holes have to be played. So, presumably if 11 hole comps are played, they "could" be qualifiers, where the 7 holes not played would be given nett par. I think anyway.

9. When the app is up and running, will we be able to check everyone’s Playing Handicap, or only our own?
In USA, everything apparently is open (before WHS anyway), so peers could review player records. Presumably that will happen here, but again the technology is still a bit of a mystery to me.

 

[jim8flog]

1. I have seen nothing in writing but it would appear to be going back 2 years (I assume 2 calendar years so beginning of 2018)
2. Club can set it's own requirements (which it has always been able to do)
3. Do not know, not worried about what other countries are doing
4. In a medal play comp the hole must be completed or they are DQd (R&A rules apply). in Stableford it is a no score so can pick up and record NS
5. Depends on what a club can afford but clearly will need at least one PSI
6. They are being offered for a club to buy. The charts I have seen only do the conversion of playing index to course handicap. Too many variables really for full charts but no doubt so one will bring out ones like the ones available at present.
7. Players only have a responsibility for having the correct Handicap index on the card (this question asked and responded to at the workshop)
8. Do not know.
9. We use use Intelligent Golf it allows any player to see another players full handicap record including single cards for a competition.

 

[IanMcC]

7. Players only have a responsibility for having the correct Handicap index on the card (this question asked and responded to at the workshop)

So, if a player has the incorrect handicap index on their card, through not having the app or maybe not updating the PSI from yesterday's round, are they DQ'd, even if they arrive at the correct Playing Handicap through calculation?

 

[Swango1980]

So, if a player has the incorrect handicap index on their card, through not having the app or maybe not updating the PSI from yesterday's round, are they DQ'd, even if they arrive at the correct Playing Handicap through calculation?

As per my response just before Jim's

Firstly, I'm not sure that it is the Index that needs to be on the scorecard. Not sure if Jim has this as the definitive answer? It may, for example be the Playing handicap that needs to be on the card, as this represents the number of strokes that they are getting in that competition. Or, some think it may even be the Course Handicap (that's what England Golf sort of went for in the presentation, without any conviction).

But, in short, yes. Whatever handicap needs to appear, if it is not there the player will be disqualified. We will be heavily reliant on the technology to give is the right handicap on the day

PS- If they arrive at the correct Playing Handicap by calculation, surely they'd need the Index to start with?? So, to get the Playing Handicap, they'd need that Index regardless

 

[rulefan]

Firstly, I'm not sure that it is the Index that needs to be on the scorecard. .

The RoG control that.

(4) Scoring in Handicap Competition. The player is responsible for making sure that his or her handicap is shown on the scorecard. If the player returns a scorecard without the right handicap:

• Handicap on Scorecard Too High or No Handicap Shown. If this affects the number of strokes the player gets, the player is disqualified from the handicap competition. If it does not, there is no penalty.
• Handicap on Scorecard Too Low. There is no penalty and the player’s net score stands using the lower handicap as shown.

 

[Swango1980]

The RoG control that.

(4) Scoring in Handicap Competition. The player is responsible for making sure that his or her handicap is shown on the scorecard. If the player returns a scorecard without the right handicap:

• Handicap on Scorecard Too High or No Handicap Shown. If this affects the number of strokes the player gets, the player is disqualified from the handicap competition. If it does not, there is no penalty.
• Handicap on Scorecard Too Low. There is no penalty and the player’s net score stands using the lower handicap as shown.

I assume the highlighted bit means "Playing Handicap", which is what I interpreted it as.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm thinking that WHS will start making complete sense to me when I actually start using it - when I will see how it works; how I might have to adjust my thinking around my handicap; number of shots I may or may not get, and how it works in matches across wide ranging handicaps. But until then I will keep on keeping on, and let the future be what it will when it will.

 

[doublebogey7]

I assume the highlighted bit means "Playing Handicap", which is what I interpreted it as.

I am assuming it is your handicap index that is required, as that is the nearest equivalent to what is required currently.

 

[Swango1980]

I am assuming it is your handicap index that is required, as that is the nearest equivalent to what is required currently.

But I don't think the rules are written to ensure you use what is closest to what we do now?

Currently, we basically only have one number related to our handicap. So, that is easy. However, cards have the boxes Handicap and Strokes Received (ours does anyway).

So, currently, if I was to play in a competition that was 75% handicap, what is the most important box to be correct? The Handicap one, or the Strokes Received one? If I put in a handicap of 9 (my handicap is 9), would I be OK if I didn't put 7 in the strokes received? Or, if I accidentally put 9 in the strokes received but left Handicap blank, would I be OK because at least my correct handicap of 9 appeared?

I genuinely don't know the above, I've just never really thought about it.

But, it leads me on to WHS. Potentially club scorecards may have Index, Course, Playing Handicap boxes to fill in? If so, which box needs to be correct?