World Handicap System (WHS)

[Swango1980]

Apart from the fact that all the world authorities agree that the averaging system is better at getting a true and fair handicap than the ratchet system see this

https://www.randa.org/en/worldhandicapsystem/whyaworldhandicapsystem

Just out of interest, did that truly consider what the average golfer wants? Yes, they can sell it to the average golfer that is fairer, although that doesn't necessarily mean the average golfer will see that when it is in place. Possibly, the average golfer in other parts of the world will adapt much better / quicker because it is probably similar to what they are already used to. But, maybe in the UK adapting to it will be different.

My instinct from the start was always that, the UK was the sacrificial lamb. In fact, at the workshop at Woodhall 2 or 3 years ago, it was pretty much suggested that the UK had been forced to go along the lines of the USPGA handicap system, somewhat reluctantly, but were at least fighting to get as much in there as possible (e.g. the PCC calculation given the weather in UK is so variable) to have it adapted. Now, not saying that was the opinion of everyone at England Golf, but at least the presenter at the time.

 

[bobmac]

Is there much difference between the new WHS and the present American handicapping system?

 

[Swango1980]

Is there much difference between the new WHS and the present American handicapping system?

I'm sure someone will go through the detail, as I'm not well versed. But, as far as I am aware, the present American system is different in that:

• I believe you are strongly encourage (if not must) to enter ALL scores, from all types of play, meaning you need to make up a score if you don't finish a hole. With WHS, the scores that count for handicap will be exactly the same as now (i.e. singles stroke play comps and supplementary cards if you wish, under qualifying conditions). Although, that may be a regional thing over here, in America WHS may still allow them to enter similar to they do now over there?
• I believe the system is the same (i.e. average best x scores in last y rounds), but I think x is different. It will be 8 for WHS, I think it may be 6 in the US system now?
• I don't think the current American system has a course adjustment factor at the moment (PCC)

I'm sure there are other things. However, apart from addition of PCC and the fact that there may be a slightly different number of rounds averages to get handicap, I suspect American golfers may not really notice much difference at all during the transition?

 

[rulefan]

I'm sure someone will go through the detail, as I'm not well versed. But, as far as I am aware, the present American system is different in that:

• I believe you are strongly encourage (if not must) to enter ALL scores, from all types of play, meaning you need to make up a score if you don't finish a hole. With WHS, the scores that count for handicap will be exactly the same as now (i.e. singles stroke play comps and supplementary cards if you wish, under qualifying conditions). Although, that may be a regional thing over here, in America WHS may still allow them to enter similar to they do now over there?
• I believe the system is the same (i.e. average best x scores in last y rounds), but I think x is different. It will be 8 for WHS, I think it may be 6 in the US system now?
• I don't think the current American system has a course adjustment factor at the moment (PCC)

I'm sure there are other things. However, apart from addition of PCC and the fact that there may be a slightly different number of rounds averages to get handicap, I suspect American golfers may not really notice much difference at all during the transition?

The US previously didn't use Net Double Bogey but a couple of odd processes. Estimated Score if not holed out and Maximum Score depending on handicap of player.
Previously 10 from last 20
They did not have an equivalent to CSS/PCC
They had previously tightened up the requirement for general play scores in anticipation.
The formula for calculating Course Handicap is different now.
Handicaps will be updated daily rather than twice a month

 

[jim8flog]

Many years ago I would often play 2 qualifying events on the same day, 1st a medal at my home course first thing in the morning, the 2nd at an away open at a nearby course in the afternoon.
I was able to self adjust my H/C downwards between rounds [ if required ] using the SS when the CSS wasn't available,
can this be done in the WHS ?

It is a question I specifically asked at the workshop and the answer was given that there will be no self adjustment under the WHS.

 

[bobmac]

Thanks for the replies guys, but I still don't know if there is much difference between the new WHS and the present American handicapping system?

 

[williamalex1]

Thanks for the replies guys, but I still don't know if there is much difference between the new WHS and the present American handicapping system?

With your new image, are going to play in the States

 

[IanMcC]

Cool, up to the Committee then. Once you finish your first round, try and avoid any interaction with a Committee member before you go out for second round. In particular, give the handicap secretary a very wide berth haha

I cannot think of any circumstances where I would have the info, knowledge or balls to adjust someones handicap manually under WHS.
On this point, on this wonderful app that isnt built yet, can we only see our own playing history and HI, or can we see everyone's?

 

[bobmac]

With your new image, are going to play in the States

What new image?
Oh, you mean Aron Ra, one of the unholy trinity?

Would I go and play in the States?
No way, I might get shot

 

[rulefan]

I cannot think of any circumstances where I would have the info, knowledge or balls to adjust someones handicap manually under WHS.
On this point, on this wonderful app that isnt built yet, can we only see our own playing history and HI, or can we see everyone's?

As now, it will depend your level of authority. Different levels (eg handicap sec as opposed to club member) will have different viewing and updating access.
What can you do now?

 

[IanMcC]

As now, it will depend your level of authority. Different levels (eg handicap sec as opposed to club member) will have different viewing and updating access.
What can you do now?

I can see everyone's handicap and playing history. I do t have full admin access though. The office adds new members, for example. It is ClubV1.
Is there not an app up and running in countries already changed over to WHS that we can examine?7

 

[rulefan]

I can see everyone's handicap and playing history. I do t have full admin access though. The office adds new members, for example. It is ClubV1.
Is there not an app up and running in countries already changed over to WHS that we can examine?7

Not unless you are member of an affiliated club there that I am aware of.

 

[jim8flog]

I cannot think of any circumstances where I would have the info, knowledge or balls to adjust someones handicap manually under WHS.
On this point, on this wonderful app that isnt built yet, can we only see our own playing history and HI, or can we see everyone's?

With Intelligent Golf currently any member can see another members handicap history.

 

[IanMcC]

Not unless you are member of an affiliated club there that I am aware of.

A quick search on my app store brings up something called USGA GHIN. Apparently this is the official USGA app incorporating WHS. I downloaded it and you are correct, cant enter without a user number . Ominously the app reviews are appalling, especially for android users.

 

[Swango1980]

I have just been to the WHS Workshop at Woodhall Spa. It was presented directly by England Golf (as that is their base), by the lady I presume is the Queen of Handicaps in England (might not be the exact job title). It was very well presented.

My various concerns still remain, and it obviously was not the platform to go through them all, as for most I'll just have to accept what will he will he. However, just a few points that came out of it:

The playing handicap will be calculated from the course handicap, using the course handicap as a whole number, not a decimal. They have only really settled on this decision this week, and based on fact that in the US, where it is already rolled out, golfers were already using the whole number as they found it easier. They intend to confirm and publicise in due course.

If a player puts in a score (say from a social round), but doesn't hand in a card, rather than just deleting the score, it appears the handicap sec needs to go chasing the player to get their card. A bit worrying if this is common.

If a player doesn't submit a score, either because they dont want a handicap change (up or down), the Committee can enter a penalty score, or get their score if it is written down on the markers card. All a bit woolly, in that the committee need to first establish, I guess, whether the player didn't hand in a card because they didn't go down, didn't go up or just couldn't be bothered, which will influence what they do if a penalty score is to be entered. It also suggests, if you used a markers card for example, a player technically doesn't need to have a card submitted at all in some cases.

If you want funding for the hardware, you can apply BUT probably wont be successful. The money they had for funding has now run out.

You can increase a players handicap more than the hard cap of 5, but must go through the union.

There will be an ESR, starting as scores of -7. This will take -1 off handicap index. Basically, it takes 1 off all 20 scores in you record, which remains on those scores. But, as you continue to submit more scores, they go in without the -1 adjustment. The score is -2 if a score of -10 is submitted.

 

[rulefan]

The playing handicap will be calculated from the course handicap, using the course handicap as a whole number, not a decimal. They have only really settled on this decision this week, and based on fact that in the US, where it is already rolled out, golfers were already using the whole number as they found it easier. They intend to confirm and publicise in due course.

From post #183
The CONGU Technical team are taking it up with the R&A re the practicality for players.

 

[nickjdavis]

Thank goodness for some common sense around using the Course Handicap as a whole number.

 

[Swango1980]

From post #183
The CONGU Technical team are taking it up with the R&A re the practicality for players.

Yes, I just thought a more direct comment fresh from.the meeting might be of interest to some people?

 

[upsidedown]

Not unless you are member of an affiliated club there that I am aware of.

Not an app but you can see everyone's handicap index and playing record in NZ without being a NZ golf member .
https://www.golf.co.nz/HighPerforma...ageNumber=1&GenderIndex=0&AgeIndex=0&ClubId=0

 

[jim8flog]

Yes, I just thought a more direct comment fresh from.the meeting might be of interest to some people?

certainly me.