World Handicap System (WHS)

[upsidedown]

In the current system, a player will generally know that, if they have a bad round they'll go up 0.1 (and a handicap secretary can explain what score this would occur at, or why it didn't go up 0.1 if it happened to be reductions only). If they get a good score, it can be explained to them why their handicap went down by a certain amount by simply comparing their score to CSS and knowing their category. A golfer with reasonable knowledge will easily be able to predict what will happen to their handicap regardless of score, and subject to the final CSS. However, with WHS, this won't really be possible. Yes, you can explain that it is the best 8 scores out of 20, averaged. But, without knowing all 20 scores, you wouldn't be able to speculate any change in handicap really. And, players will be going out blind, in the sense that regardless of how they are playing, they won't really know what will happen to their handicap until it is changed at midnight. Unless the technology is updated, for example, to indicate to a player what the potential outcomes to their handicap may be for a range of scores in their next round? Although, you'd still be relying on technology for this.

From my own personal perspective when playing under the NZ version , I knew exactly what my best 10 scores were and what score I'd have to shoot to get a handicap cut . Most playing partners who were interested also knew what theirs were to ( mainly Brits) but there was also the guys who couldn't care less and took what score they had, Kiwis and those Brits who had totally adjusted to the Kiwi lifestyle of "She'll be right "

 

[rulefan]

Yes, you can explain that it is the best 8 scores out of 20, averaged. But, without knowing all 20 scores, you wouldn't be able to speculate any change in handicap really. And, players will be going out blind, in the sense that regardless of how they are playing, they won't really know what will happen to their handicap until it is changed at midnight. Unless the technology is updated, for example, to indicate to a player what the potential outcomes to their handicap may be for a range of scores in their next round? Although, you'd still be relying on technology for this.

That might be an issue in the short term but any change to their handicap will be minimal with an averaging system (unless they have an unusually exceptionally high or low score).
But would it matter about knowing possible outcomes before play? They are obliged by the rules to play their best.
If everywhere else in the world, they have managed to understand and cope with the same averaging system for decades, why can't we?

Edit:
Just seen upsidedown's post. If people standing on their head can do it, normal people can.

 

[rosecott]

And no one ever claimed.

But who really understands how CSS and cat to cat adjustments work?

CSS is not rocket science. With a simple little spreadsheet set-up and the tables in the CONGU manual, it's fairly straightforward. I only use the Handicapmaster software and you don't even need the spreadsheet as you can call up for every competition the table showing the calculation.

 

[Swango1980]

That might be an issue in the short term but any change to their handicap will be minimal with an averaging system (unless they have an unusually exceptionally high or low score).
But would it matter about knowing possible outcomes before play? They are obliged by the rules to play their best.
If everywhere else in the world, they have managed to understand and cope with the same averaging system for decades, why can't we?

We can. Not saying we won't. But, I'm guessing the rest of the world didn't have any comparison to make to an alternative system, they just got on with the system that was there? And I'm not really questioning the need to know what a handicap will change to based on the fact a golfer may change their playing style to achieve that (i.e. deviously put on the brakes and not score well). I'm more mentioning because, simply speaking, it is nice to know what the change will be, especially if you are on a good score. If golfers have to wait until the next day, it might just seem a little more like a dark art.

In terms of changes to handicap being minimal, I don't agree. They might be, but not necessarily. I've already worked out if I shoot 4 reasonably poor rounds my handicap would go up by 2 shots, based on my score history. Although other times there could be no change at all if my oldest scores were also poor. Or, take the following example, with a fairly tight range of best 8 scores:

+5, +6, +6, +8, +9, +10, +11, +12. That is an average of +8.4 (assume these are already "sloped", to simplify the point.

If I went out and shot +5 next round, my handicap could go to +7.5, as it would replace the +12 round. However, if my score from 21 rounds ago was one of the +5's, my handicap would simply stay at +8.4 despite the good round (and obviously, the handicap would be somewhere in between if the score replaced any of the other 8 scores in my previous best 8).

If I had a shocker, then my handicap may well stay at +8.4. But, if I then lost one of my best 8 which becomes 21 rounds ago, my handicap would not only depend on which score I "lost", but what by next best score would have been. So, if my next best score was +13, and I lost the +5 round, then my handicap would go from 8.4 to 9.4 (quite a big jump up).

I'm not suggesting anything is wrong with handicap changes like this, it is just the way the system works. All I am saying is, it would be somewhat confusing to really know what is going on and I think most golfers would just have to put 100% faith in the system and just not worry about fully understanding it

 

[YandaB]

I'm not suggesting anything is wrong with handicap changes like this, it is just the way the system works. All I am saying is, it would be somewhat confusing to really know what is going on and I think most golfers would just have to put 100% faith in the system and just not worry about fully understanding it

If you want to do some simple maths I reckon you go up/down 0.125 for each score difference. Generally I only need to know about the lowest one I have of the 8 and if I have beaten that can take off the appropriate number of 0.125s. Occasionally, when the 20th oldest is one of my best 8 and was about to disappear, I would also need to know the next best of my currently non-counting rounds.
So that's 2 at most and 1 in most cases? I guess the difficulty is that they could change every week. I suspect that I'll probably just rely on an app

 

[williamalex1]

I don't think jim8flog is correct. The information given to him is wrong.
The late entry scores will be adjusted by the PCC for the day played. They will not affect the PCC for the day of entry

PM sent

 

[williamalex1]

Many years ago I would often play 2 qualifying events on the same day, 1st a medal at my home course first thing in the morning, the 2nd at an away open at a nearby course in the afternoon.
I was able to self adjust my H/C downwards between rounds [ if required ] using the SS when the CSS wasn't available,
can this be done in the WHS ?

 

[Swango1980]

Many years ago I would often play 2 qualifying events on the same day, 1st a medal at my home course first thing in the morning, the 2nd at an away open at a nearby course in the afternoon.
I was able to self adjust my H/C downwards between rounds [ if required ] using the SS when the CSS wasn't available,
can this be done in the WHS ?

Nope. As far as I'm aware, you just play off the same handicap all day. Good if you arranged a match play knock out in the afternoon I suppose

 

[williamalex1]

Nope. As far as I'm aware, you just play off the same handicap all day. Good if you arranged a match play knock out in the afternoon I suppose

Would previously been accused of cheating if you didn't cut yourself after a really good score

 

[Vikingman]

The eight applies to all type of rounds played by anyone on the day. I doubt that you will often see 8 general play scores returned in one day.
Do you currently check all supplementary cards before they are entered? Do you currently check all competition cards before they are entered? If the answers are different, why?

Like I said, I am relatively new to this and so far personally I've never had to deal with any supplementary cards. Going forward I would expect to start dealing with them and the nature of the WHS indicates to me that we may see more of them. I check all competition cards currently and would expect to do the same with supplementary cards, hence my question.

 

[Imurg]

Nope. As far as I'm aware, you just play off the same handicap all day. Good if you arranged a match play knock out in the afternoon I suppose

This is what's concerned me all along..
Play a medal in the morning, shoot the lights out and no change to your handicap when you play a matchplay KO in the afternoon.
Currently you cut yourself against SSS for the afternoon match but, unless you know exactly what your morning score does to your index, you're stuck.
Potentially playing off an incorrect handicap - Oooh the potential for many committee decisions....
I suppose you could play off an incorrect handicap currently as CSS could change the cut but at least you're going through a recognised procedure
Is there a process that can cope with this scenario?

 

[Swango1980]

This is what's concerned me all along..
Play a medal in the morning, shoot the lights out and no change to your handicap when you play a matchplay KO in the afternoon.
Currently you cut yourself against SSS for the afternoon match but, unless you know exactly what your morning score does to your index, you're stuck.
Potentially playing off an incorrect handicap - Oooh the potential for many committee decisions....
I suppose you could play off an incorrect handicap currently as CSS could change the cut but at least you're going through a recognised procedure
Is there a process that can cope with this scenario?

I think the simple answer will be, you will no longer have any obligation to adjust your own handicap. Purely wait until the system does it for you, so you will not get a DQ for playing off a higher handicap in 2nd round.

I was wondering, if a club had a comp on Saturday, but a handicap league match on Sunday, could they delay enter saturday scores for players who did well in comp on Saturday to ensure they play off higher handicaps on Sunday? Now, I know that sounds dodgy, so would be very very unlikely. But, I have known in past clubs not close the comp until after match on sunday and therefore play off higher handicaps in match. Maybe unintentional of course.

 

[rulefan]

Many years ago I would often play 2 qualifying events on the same day, 1st a medal at my home course first thing in the morning, the 2nd at an away open at a nearby course in the afternoon.
I was able to self adjust my H/C downwards between rounds [ if required ] using the SS when the CSS wasn't available,
can this be done in the WHS ?

In a situation when a new round is played before the player’s Handicap Index has been updated, including when multiple rounds are played on the same day, it is
recommended that the player uses their existing Handicap Index. However, in certain circumstances, the Committee in charge of the competition (or the
Handicap Committee) has the discretion to decide what Playing Handicap the player should use.

The Committee should consider all of the information available before deciding whether to adjust the player’s Playing Handicap, including what impact the score
may have had on the player's Handicap Index and whether the player would obtain any unfair advantage because their Handicap Index has not been updated.

 

[Swango1980]

Cool, up to the Committee then. Once you finish your first round, try and avoid any interaction with a Committee member before you go out for second round. In particular, give the handicap secretary a very wide berth haha

 

[Imurg]

Although it's highly unlikely to happen to me as I wouldn't play 36 in a day, I would feel quite aggrieved if one of my opponents was playing off a shot or two higher handicap than he should...especially in a tight match .

 

[williamalex1]

So wouldn't you possibly be writing the wrong H/C on your score card ?

 

[Swango1980]

So wouldn't you possibly be writing the wrong H/C on your score card ?

Not if Committee haven't told him to play off a lower handicap surely? Otherwise he is free to play off higher Index it seems

 

[rulefan]

Although it's highly unlikely to happen to me as I wouldn't play 36 in a day, I would feel quite aggrieved if one of my opponents was playing off a shot or two higher handicap than he should...especially in a tight match .

If he would have gone up a shot or two he must have had a pretty tremendous round

 

[bobmac]

And no one ever claimed.

Don't you think that's what the average golfer wants?
If the new system isn't an improvement on the old system, why change it?

 

[rulefan]

Don't you think that's what the average golfer wants?
If the new system isn't an improvement on the old system, why change it?

Apart from the fact that all the world authorities agree that the averaging system is better at getting a true and fair handicap than the ratchet system see this

https://www.randa.org/en/worldhandicapsystem/whyaworldhandicapsystem